Racing the 1199, share your experience

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zvez said:
After getting my bike setup by a suspension guy (Dave Moss) he recommended a starting cold pressure on the OEM tires (supercorsa SP)of 27(1.86 bar)rear 29 (2.0bar)front.
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Dave Moss set up my buddy's 675R and transformed the thing from Very Good to Absofreakinglutely Awesome.

zvez, do you have a Base like I do? Do you know what the figures are on Moss's set-up? I weigh 205, but I figure any Moss set-up will be a better starting off point than stock.
 
I've been meaning to check what the settings are, should've done it while he was doing it, but it was the middle of a track day.

I'm only 175 so my settings probably wouldn't work. Later today I'll check what he did.

Here's a link to his site. He's worked with a number of panis so he might be able to consult and give suggestions via email as astart.

Feel The Track | Ensure your bike geometry, spring rates, hydraulic damping and tire size/compounds are in sync

Tell him you were referred by a very satisfied customer!

CHarles foxtrot said:
Dave Moss set up my buddy's 675R and transformed the thing from Very Good to Absofreakinglutely Awesome.

zvez, do you have a Base like I do? Do you know what the figures are on Moss's set-up? I weigh 205, but I figure any Moss set-up will be a better starting off point than stock.
Click to expand...
 
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duckracer said:
Jarelj, You are running Bridgestones aren't you? I have a bunch of 190/55's left over from my 1098 and was wondering if the size diff freaks out the traction control too much. What is you experience?
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Yeah I have tc turned off, it doesn't respond consistently with a 190 on the rear. It not hard to ride without tc, at least with the ttx shock the feel from the rear is good so you can tell when it's spinning and you know not to push it any harder. I'll put the nemesis tc on there as soon as its available.
 
PabloPwnage said:
The only time I have had 1000rr's start to pull away is towards the end of a straight where the top end advantage goes to the BMW. on the rest of the track, the Pani is so agile and easy to ride that it takes an extremely skilled rider on the BMW to keep up. Both riders being of the same calibre and speaking from experience on both bikes, the Pani is just easier to ride fast.
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i think it depends on the rider..

on first ride i dont think the pani is easier to ride than the beemer. when doing hard corners at 160+kmh, keeping the throttle on the pani was harder as the power curve comes in weird staccatos. and each staccato makes you think that you are losing your rear. at least that was the case for me.
the beemer was easy to just keep it steady thru the curve. inline 4s are boring, yes, but they are predictable.

doing the flat 0-300 in a drag was also so much easier on the beemer.

after awhile though, they are all quite manageable as you know the individual characteristics. it all boils down to your personal preferences.

i find the best one to corner was the RSV4.
 
koreanano said:
i think it depends on the rider..

on first ride i dont think the pani is easier to ride than the beemer. when doing hard corners at 160+kmh, keeping the throttle on the pani was harder as the power curve comes in weird staccatos. and each staccato makes you think that you are losing your rear. at least that was the case for me.
the beemer was easy to just keep it steady thru the curve. inline 4s are boring, yes, but they are predictable.

doing the flat 0-300 in a drag was also so much easier on the beemer.

after awhile though, they are all quite manageable as you know the individual characteristics. it all boils down to your personal preferences.

i find the best one to corner was the RSV4.
Click to expand...

I agree it definitely depends on the rider but if you are getting jumpiness in the rear that sounds more like an issue with suspension setup than with the motor. When I first took the bike out on the track, I felt a little bit of that wiggle in the back end and all it took was raising the preload and messing with damping on the front so it wasn't sprung for a 120 lbs. Italian man and changing the rear so it wasn't sprung for a 250 lbs. dude with a passenger. She's all sorted now and is stable as my 1198 SP ever was deep into turns :D

With the S1000RR going from off throttle to on throttle always made me wince a bit, especially at higher rpms whereas on the 1199 I get on the throttle and it always feels smooth and predictable. Again, this is with stock fuel maps on both bikes and stock headers/pipes. I know jumpiness can be heavily mitigated with better fuel maps and a power commander.

I have never ridden an RSV4 but I would really love to get on one. I have always wanted to own a V4 superbike and the Aprilia is a sexy machine, barring that ugly ... exhaust that they ripped off from Suzuki of course but how hard is it to change a pipe? ;)
 
zvez said:
After getting my bike setup by a suspension guy (Dave Moss) he recommended a starting cold pressure on the OEM tires (supercorsa SP)of 27(1.86 bar)rear 29 (2.0bar)front.
Click to expand...

i ran these settings @ AMP and got a "hot tear".
after discussing it with the pirelli guys up in indy, they mentioned, 2.3/2.3 would be the best setting for the "average" rider (~100 kg geared) . there were the pressures the tires and the 1199 have been developed on. (supercorsa SP)
 
PabloPwnage said:
I agree it definitely depends on the rider but if you are getting jumpiness in the rear that sounds more like an issue with suspension setup than with the motor. When I first took the bike out on the track, I felt a little bit of that wiggle in the back end and all it took was raising the preload and messing with damping on the front so it wasn't sprung for a 120 lbs. Italian man and changing the rear so it wasn't sprung for a 250 lbs. dude with a passenger. She's all sorted now and is stable as my 1198 SP ever was deep into turns :D

With the S1000RR going from off throttle to on throttle always made me wince a bit, especially at higher rpms whereas on the 1199 I get on the throttle and it always feels smooth and predictable. Again, this is with stock fuel maps on both bikes and stock headers/pipes. I know jumpiness can be heavily mitigated with better fuel maps and a power commander.

I have never ridden an RSV4 but I would really love to get on one. I have always wanted to own a V4 superbike and the Aprilia is a sexy machine, barring that ugly ... exhaust that they ripped off from Suzuki of course but how hard is it to change a pipe? ;)
Click to expand...

I lowered the tire pressure today on the pani (2 (rear) 2.1 (front) bars while hot) and my god.. it feels fantastic now. the diablo starts to grip the track like.. (lack of words) I really have to open the throttle now. somehow I felt my skills were improved because of the previous set up as I had to control the beast more radically. btw I am about 80kg geared.

it still doesnt beat the rsv4 though, imo, the feeling is just too different. the rsv4 feels more natural. I feel like I can just go melt into the road. Still, being a pani owner, I have to say it really really is a fantastic track machine.

Note that all bikes I tested were on stock settings.. nothing was adjusted except for tire pressure.
 
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koreanano said:
I lowered the tire pressure today on the pani (2 (rear) 2.1 (front) bars while hot) and my god.. it feels fantastic now. the diablo starts to grip the track like.. (lack of words) I really have to open the throttle now. somehow I felt my skills were improved because of the previous set up as I had to control the beast more radically. btw I am about 80kg geared.

it still doesnt beat the rsv4 though, imo, the feeling is just too different. the rsv4 feels more natural. I feel like I can just go melt into the road. Still, being a pani owner, I have to say it really really is a fantastic track machine.

Note that all bikes I tested were on stock settings.. nothing was adjusted except for tire pressure.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the tire pressure makes a HUGE difference on those Supercorsas. If your tire pressure is too high, they start to get a very weird feeling when they get hot and eventually start to overheat. You can even see it in the tire wear pattern when you come in off the track. I ran into that this weekend at Pacific Raceways where I thought my tire pressure was lower than it was and after they had heated up, I checked pressure and was hitting 38 psi in the rear; not good. Once I dropped the tire pressure to about 34 psi (running hot so it would be about 28-29 when cold) the bike felt amazing again and I went back to bombing the .... out of the track :)

Personally I find that if I have to dig deeper into my bag of tricks to keep the bike reigned in on the track, my setup needs work. The Pani is most awesome when it is most behaved and finding that setup is the difference between a bike that is a blast to ride and a bike that has you spending too much time thinking about every little detail as you go into a corner. You only have a bank account of so much attention span so I prefer to keep that bank account as full as possible ;)
 
Just to clarify, if you have too much pressure in the tire it will not overheat, it's the opposite where it will not gain enough pressure when hot and you will cold-tear the surface. If you run too little pressure the carcass will flex too much and create excess heat, leading to the tire gaining too much pressure and overheating. On most brands of race tires you look for around 5-8 lbs of pressure gain from cold to hot on a rear tire. We look for 6-7 lbs on the bridgestones between cold and hot off the track.
 
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jarel, any idea how much psi I should gain running the stock tires cold to hot?

jarelj said:
Just to clarify, if you have too much pressure in the tire it will not overheat, it's the opposite where it will not gain enough pressure when hot and you will cold-rear the surface. If you run too little pressure the carcass will flex too much and create excess heat, leading to the tire gaining too much pressure and overheating. On most brands of race tires you look for around 5-8 lbs of pressure gain from cold to hot on a rear tire. We look for 6-7 lbs on the bridgestones between cold and hot off the track.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry I'm not a Pirelli expert, so don't know for sure, maybe someone with Pirelli race tire experience can chime in.
 
Was told by the Pirelli people that the SP is a street tire and should not be run on a track.
Had to chuck mine after the first trackday, rear was decent but the front was pushing and didn't give any feedback.
Went for SC's and been very happy with 29 PSI front and 26 rear(hot).
 
The sp is not a RACE tire, but it's designed to be a dual-purpose street/track tire, just like a Bridgestone bt003rs.
 
Yeah, you can run track days with the SPs, they just aren't designed to be a full race tire. There is still quite a difference between track day pace and race pace. I have gotten three out of my last set of Supercorsas and even riding moderately hard the front tire holds up well (can't say the same for the rear :D)
 
Agree, you "could" run SP's on the track, but EOD you're better off running a DOT race tire or a full slick; both performance-wise and economically. I did a track day on the SP's and the rear lasted half a day with the first 2-3 sessions requiring a lot of tweaking of psi and suspension to minimize tearing. If you're planning on doing track days regularly, find a tire you like and stick with it so you don't have to worry about the constant experimenting.
 
Any of you tried the Dunlop KR tyres on the pani ?
I will have my first run on the track monday/tuesday on Brno, and will take the first laps on the oem tyres
 

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