Some track day prep questions

Sounds like you had a great time!

One “mindset” on being passed by apex crawlers….let it flush away the instance it happens. This is my first year of riding where it is entirely peaceful and it is way more fun than letting the little stuff upset you. As long as you try to improve and come home with a shiny bike it’s all good

I might be guilty of giving the apex parker impression….but only when I have stalked someone for a few corners and I know I won’t impede them when I get by. I’ll block pass early in the brake zone just to let the person know I’m there, 6’ width minimum, more likely 1/2 the track width between them and turn side edge. This throws me way off line so I will be slower than normal for sure, but usually once I am back in my groove I can walk away.

You must have a new impression of seeing televised races from there. Love watching racing on tracks I’ve ridden.

Kev242 said:

Sounds like you had a great time!

One “mindset” on being passed by apex crawlers….let it flush away the instance it happens. This is my first year of riding where it is entirely peaceful and it is way more fun than letting the little stuff upset you. As long as you try to improve and come home with a shiny bike it’s all good

I might be guilty of giving the apex parker impression….but only when I have stalked someone for a few corners and I know I won’t impede them when I get by. I’ll block pass early in the brake zone just to let the person know I’m there, 6’ width minimum, more likely 1/2 the track width between them and turn side edge. This throws me way off line so I will be slower than normal for sure, but usually once I am back in my groove I can walk away.

You must have a new impression of seeing televised races from there. Love watching racing on tracks I’ve ridden.

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this is no joke...i pull up moto gp and nascar races at COTA and then my own track video and sync them up to see how damn slow i am in each area of track...but boy the nascars look like garbage at COTA...we are quicker than them in a lot of spots on the track..i found that very surprising myself...

JAG

SirJAG said:

this is no joke...i pull up moto gp and nascar races at COTA and then my own track video and sync them up to see how damn slow i am in each area of track...but boy the nascars look like garbage at COTA...we are quicker than them in a lot of spots on the track..i found that very surprising myself...

JAG

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What I noticed most looking at the video and data is how much of a delay between acceleration and braking. I found that I typically pause for 0.5 sec to “set the brakes” before applying the brakes. Need to be off throttle and immediately into braking.

Kev242 said:

Sounds like you had a great time!

One “mindset” on being passed by apex crawlers….let it flush away the instance it happens. This is my first year of riding where it is entirely peaceful and it is way more fun than letting the little stuff upset you. As long as you try to improve and come home with a shiny bike it’s all good

I might be guilty of giving the apex parker impression….but only when I have stalked someone for a few corners and I know I won’t impede them when I get by. I’ll block pass early in the brake zone just to let the person know I’m there, 6’ width minimum, more likely 1/2 the track width between them and turn side edge. This throws me way off line so I will be slower than normal for sure, but usually once I am back in my groove I can walk away.

You must have a new impression of seeing televised races from there. Love watching racing on tracks I’ve ridden.

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I’ll be doing Most soon and I was watching WSBK very closely!

The example of the apex crawler I gave - in hindsight, I could’ve stuck to doing what I was doing and I would’ve been okay, but I took the cautious approach and lifted and let the bike run onto the outer curb, and I’m glad I did as the same rider binned it 150m before the same corner a couple of laps later.

Turn 1 at Brno felt easy to overtake on the inside as people were braking early and turning even later than me. It’s quite a wide track and there are plenty of different lines to take and lots of overtaking places if you are positive on the throttle or light on the brakes.

I keep finding myself going around the circuit in my head… it will be interesting to take what I’ve learned to Most and see how quickly I can apply it. Apparently it’s a lot more technical than Brno and a newer surface. Hopefully I can get at least one more session at Brno and improve a bit more.

I don’t usually have regrets in life but I do regret being off bikes for so many years. I’m doing my best to squeeze in as much as I can while I can though.

SuperDomestique said:

What I noticed most looking at the video and data is how much of a delay between acceleration and braking. I found that I typically pause for 0.5 sec to “set the brakes” before applying the brakes. Need to be off throttle and immediately into braking.

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Amazing when you see how quickly they are off the throttle and on the brakes. Having this data available is so useful - reality vs feel.

This is my analysis of T11 from RaceBox data

The overlays are interesting - I think I can do that with the DDA software… I’ll have to have another look.

SuperDomestique said:

What I noticed most looking at the video and data is how much of a delay between acceleration and braking. I found that I typically pause for 0.5 sec to “set the brakes” before applying the brakes. Need to be off throttle and immediately into braking.

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See how fast you're going, then calculate what .57 sec is in feet. That's going to blow you away. Multiply that across the track and you've got a couple of seconds to gain on this alone.
It's about more of the track at a higher speed + not having to slow as much for the corner.

Vbreeze said:

See how fast you're going, then calculate what .57 sec is in feet. That's going to blow you away. Multiply that across the track and you've got a couple of seconds to gain on this alone.
It's about more of the track at a higher speed + not having to slow as much for the corner.

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Yeah… Comes to about 60 ft of wasted track per corner

1, 8 & 11 at Laguna are way more. That's a bunch of seconds you can get real easy just cutting gas and getting the right amount of braking at the right time.
Easy to say. ;P

Back to Brno for 3 days again next week before Most 2 weeks after.

Apparently this organiser has up to 48 riders in each group - around 40 booked so far. That seems a lot? Or maybe I've been spoiled so far with low numbers in the novice groups.

Focus will be on vision, getting off the bike more and trying to get the throttle open, meaning to get it WOT sooner and trying to keep it WOT for a bit longer, and to hit my turn-in markers better, which will be important if I go faster.

I know where the track goes very well now so I feel I've got more attention available to focus on these things.

That was a fun weekend. Bloody hot…

2:34 was the best I managed but I was consistently doing around 2:35 and it was 14 seconds better than the last time. Adequate progress for my third track day I think and I’m taking no chances and giving myself no scares.

If I could fully open the throttle more than a few times per lap and keep it open for a little bit longer then the time would come down quite a bit more. I was getting held up in corners by people who were putting in better times, so it’s obvious how much time is gained on the straights. I was getting better at overtaking though. Braking lightly but deep into turn 1 is a favourite place - a lot of people seem to turn in quite late and take it as one long turn - but there are plenty of other places to overtake at Brno.

I was also getting more comfortable with the braking and always felt I could have left it later, but I’m happy to take my time.

I put a camera on the bike this time and it was really interesting to see myself changing gear at 10K every bloody time… and by ‘interesting’ I mean infuriating. I then tried to ignore the engine sound and just open the throttle and not change gear until I saw a flashing light in my peripheral vision. Easier said than done but it started to feel more comfortable.

Overall it still felt comfortable and there were no scary moments. It was starting to feel like I wasn’t going fast (which I’m not of course) but the interesting thing was that it didn’t really feel like I was going faster and yet the lap times were steadily coming down and were quite consistent. It reminds me of slowing down a golf swing and hitting the ball further. Quite a few times I’d feel I had eased off a bit and gone quite slow and the lap would be about the same.

I tried Supercorsa SC3 - really nice.

My sliders remain box fresh (I never reach out with my knee particularly though - I’m not making any effort to get my knee down). I need to improve my lower body position and get more off the bike, but quite often my outside foot was slipping off the peg - I wonder if I should raise the pegs slightly? I think the RaceSeats item I have is slightly higher but the pegs are, I think, in the OEM position.

Still working on vision and trying not to forget to work on basics.

This track stuff is such fun.

Oh, and what’s yaw - apparently I had some.

I also got lucky with the garage I had... The guy at the track who was changing tyres couldn't get my rear wheel off so I asked the guys in the next garage, where there was a new V4R and SP2 along with quite a few other Ducatis, if anyone could help. A very helpful chap had a multiplier and went with me to get the rear wheel nut removed - made it look easy. He told me to pop the bike into their garage when it was done. I noticed that the tyre change guy tightened everything by hand - no torque value - and the two bolts under the front forks were tightened one at a time with the bike in the air, which I knew was wrong. The helpful chap in the next garage went through all of the bolts, tightened to correct torques and shook his head a few times at the lack of torque applied on some bolts.

It turned out that he owns a large Ducati dealer in Switzerland. If he happens to read this, thanks SO much for being super-helpful. I need to get myself one of those torque multipliers and I'll remove wheels myself next time instead of relying on the local tyre change guy...

I've done 9 days on track so far - I guess I should do an oil change or is it likely to be ok for the next 3 days on track in a couple of weeks. Praying for good weather...

Definitely get an oil change, it’s cheap and it will give some indication of how your engine internals are doing.

Personally… I’d get an oil change every 1-2 hours of track time.

Alkhater said:

Definitely get an oil change, it’s cheap and it will give some indication of how your engine internals are doing.

Personally… I’d get an oil change every 1-2 hours of track time.

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That would basically be after every day on track… So if I do a three day weekend on track, I should be doing an oil change after for sure?

I’ve done three of them…

spooky said:

That would basically be after every day on track… So if I do a three day weekend on track, I should be doing an oil change after for sure?

I’ve done three of them…

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Yup. I highly recommend an oil change after a track weekend, especially during the first 3k of motor use but even afterwards.

Alkhater said:

Yup. I highly recommend an oil change after a track weekend, especially during the first 3k of motor use but even afterwards.

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I'd better look up how to do it then!! I expect it should be straightforward.

spooky said:

I'd better look up how to do it then!! I expect it should be straightforward.

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Very straight forward.

If the oil isn’t too dirty then no need to swap the oil filter every time. If it is then you will need 3 M8 bolts to pull the filter cover off or even better use this Panigale/Streetfighter/Multistrada V4/V4S/V4R Oil Filter Cover

Three days at Most completed - what an awesome track. I'm slightly tired after that - it's a very technical circuit and there's no time to relax, constantly switching sides on the bike. Very different to Brno but really great for working on technique and a lot of fun. It's a lot narrower than Brno as well but with plenty of overtaking opportunities.

I have no idea how Rae managed a hair under 1:31 on this circuit - I think he must have taken a shortcut somewhere...

I found it very interesting that my fastest lap did not have the highest speed (25kph less than max), most lean (5 degrees less than max) or highest percentage of throttle input (90% vs 100%) - these data points were quite far below the highest in each area, yet produced my fastest lap. I was working on body position and lines and that was enabling me to use a bit more trail braking, using no more than 90% throttle to give myself time to try and get these things right. I don't think I got anywhere near what I was trying to do but there was an improvement based on feedback and feel on the bike.

This event was hosted by Racing School Europe and it was full tuition for all three days (two of us in my group with one instructor between us) so I was working on technique more than trying to go fast, but the technique does of course lead to faster times. There was a lot to work on! It's the second time I have attended one of their events, the first time being my first time on track at Brno, and getting the same lessons was still valuable as I was able to build on where I've got to so far with the techniques being taught.

Troy Corser was there for all three days, providing a huge amount of information, tips and experience. Seeing him overtake into a tight bend and bugger off into the distance on his back wheel with a passenger on the back was interesting... apparently he's taken one of the instructors around the circuit and had 58 degrees of lean with him on the back... He couldn't have been more helpful through the course. I need a new battery cover for the bike now as he was kind enough to sign the one on my bike - not something I usually do when I meet someone famous but I thought it would be a nice memento. After the first session he was able to provide a huge number of reference points, despite it being his first time on the circuit - I'd spotted maybe a couple of them...

I've managed 51.69 degrees of lean now and can't imagine more, although it didn't feel scary and I know it's well within the capability of the bike and tyres. It's not a goal - just interesting to note. I still haven't put my knee down on track but I'm not trying to do so. I do need to work on some flexibility over the winter so that I can get my inside foot position right - I'm not quite able to turn the foot out enough to get the heel into the heel plate. It's a bit easier on the left side as my right knee was the one I smashed up years ago, but the primary issue is hip mobility. It turns out that 25 years sitting at a desk doesn't really prepare you very well for this activity...

I've just had a look at the tyres and it's interesting to note that the amount of rubber left on the edges at the front is quite even but on the back there's less left on the right than on the left. Why would that be?

If you haven't been to Most then I highly recommend it and it's quite a convenient location (one hour from Prague). Well, it's convenient for me.

spooky said:

Three days at Most completed -

.... It's a bit easier on the left side as my right knee was the one I smashed up years ago, but the primary issue is hip mobility. It turns out that 25 years sitting at a desk doesn't really prepare you very well for this activity...

I've just had a look at the tyres and it's interesting to note that the amount of rubber left on the edges at the front is quite even but on the back there's less left on the right than on the left. Why would that be?

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Yoga, and being very consistent at it will help enormously at maintaining and improving general mobility. Find a real yoga instructor who studied in India not a gym rat who pretends. The difference is huge.
Tire wear is just showing either you are more shy on the left turns at that track or you may be hanging off further on the left turns for example, so your bike has less lean on one side. Maybe it's your knee. Generally speaking, the engine of the Panigale is flipped reverse normal so the gyroscopic forces make Right turns feel more confident than Left. This is opposite every other bike on the planet which turns Left easier, and Right, much less easy. The Panigale does both more evenly, just favors Right.