The Ultimate Fix for all V4R Reliability Problems

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I can't imagine that oil is expanding that much under heat if at all. I think waiting to check after filling then running the engine has more to do with the oil settling in the pan.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I can't imagine that oil is expanding that much under heat if at all. I think waiting to check after filling then running the engine has more to do with the oil settling in the pan.
Click to expand...
Ok how about this test you can do and let me know the results.
You do your oil change and fill the crankcase to the full mark (upper line). After that run the engine to the operating temperature, shut down and wait 10-15 min and report back how much did the oil level risen up? I can guarantee you oil level will be past upper diameter of the glass.
Keep in mind I am not arguing with you, you do with your bike what you want and I will do the same with mine. I am just giving example what I am doing and what worked for me…
Just food for thought. Cooling system is closed system filled with coolant which gets hot, what is purpose of expansion tank?
 
Bo13R said:
Ok how about this test you can do and let me know the results.
Click to expand...

Or we could calculate the change in volume:

3.2L of oil
Thermal expansion coefficient of oil: 0.0007 cc/deg. C
Ambient temp = 20 deg. C
operating temp = 100 deg. C

3.2L x (0.0007 x 80 deg. C) = 0.179L

So… at 100 deg C / 212 deg F your oil volume would expand by 179cc (about 5%).
 
Bo13R said:
Cooling system is closed system filled with coolant which gets hot, what is purpose of expansion tank?
Click to expand...

We're talking oil, not water.

Synthetic vs mineral oil, additives , etc. I don't know if its reliable to google thermal expansion, come up with a number and quote it. In that example though, who's even to say 179cc of expansion is significant? Keeping in mind that the oil when the engine is running is being pumped through the engine.

More of the oil draining into the pan while the engine is off would very likely be more than that 179cc.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
We're talking oil, not water.

Synthetic vs mineral oil, additives , etc. I don't know if its reliable to google thermal expansion, come up with a number and quote it. In that example though, who's even to say 179cc of expansion is significant? Keeping in mind that the oil when the engine is running is being pumped through the engine.

More of the oil draining into the pan while the engine is off would very likely be more than that 179cc.
Click to expand...
All valid points but we are trying to fill oil to the proper level thus trying to eliminate possible problems caused by overfilling. In beginning I followed amount recommended by manual. After job was done and after bringing bike to the operating temp and checking for leaks bike would get turned off. 30 minutes later oil level was always past upper mark and covered sight glass completely.This happened twice, after that I started doing what I described previously!
 
IDK...the manual says to wait 2 hours for all the oil to flow back into the pan.

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How much of a difference in quantity is it from the min and max lines?
 
I honestly don’t know oil amount difference between min and max.
Just to put 179 cc expansion scientifically explained and displayed by Burton to different prospective, this amount equals 180ml which is around 2/3 of plastic cup. IMO for engine of this size amount is not negligible and I am sure it will affect oil level.
 
It sounds less significant if you say what it is...less than 5% of the total volume. I don't want the conversation to get stuck on that insignificant amount.

Running a high RPM engine at the lowest range of the oil level isn't the best practice. Rather, I think the actual problem is people overfilling above the max line, either inadvertently or by following a misguided filling practice.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I think the actual problem is people overfilling above the max line, either inadvertently or by following a misguided filling practice.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree. The engine is designed to run with 3.2L of oil measured at ambient temperature.

Ducati would figure out how much oil is needed at operating temperature, then subtract the expansion volume to tell us the oil capacity at ambient temp.

For whatever reason these bikes take a long time to drain. I drain my oil for a couple of hours before pouring in 3.2 litres. My oil level eventually settles between the min and max lines, but it takes forever.
 
I wonder if the time to drain would be effected if the bike was on a rear or side stand, or to a greater degree of minutia, if the bike was on front and rear stands thereby being level.
 
I just bought a track V4r - keen to understand where this all bottoms out before I hit the track with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I wonder if the time to drain would be effected if the bike was on a rear or side stand, or to a greater degree of minutia, if the bike was on front and rear stands thereby being level.
Click to expand...

Is it true that having the bike on Front and Rear stands means it is level ? I would guess that a carpenters level might answer that, although i have never checked it
 
Only thing I will add is too much oil in the engine increases crankcase pressure which will turn in two scenarios 1. Your crankcase breather will have excessive oil pooling around it 2. You will have oil leak somewhere.
That pressure has to vent somehow/ somewhere.

I hope OP will have this sorted out quickly and enjoy the bike, btw dude you cooking on that track good job!
 
Sorry OP I didn't want this thread to be turned into an oil change discussion. I only wanted to pass on the information provided by the dealer in regards to oil level and tracking the V4.

I would again recommend that if you track your V4 to talk to your dealer and or a dealer that is familiar with Ducati's recommendations.
 
Speaking of overfill, I just did my first oil change and only got 3 quarts in before I checked the level and it was way over. I had to drain out some, so overall, my bike only took 2.7 quarts. I warmed it up pretty decent before draining, however that thick 15-50 must be sticky.
 
TomFoolery said:
Speaking of overfill, I just did my first oil change and only got 3 quarts in before I checked the level and it was way over. I had to drain out some, so overall, my bike only took 2.7 quarts. I warmed it up pretty decent before draining, however that thick 15-50 must be sticky.
Click to expand...

Warming it up first is NOT proper procedures on the V4.

The V4 operates with a dry sump style system and multiple pumps. Proper procedure is to let the bike fully cool down before doing any draining. If you warm up the bike, a lot of the oil is still up in the motor and does not drain out.

This is the main reason why so many people overfill their V4 motor Ducatis. Conventional motorcycle wisdom does not apply to them. If you change the oil with the motor warm, you will not be able to accurately measure the amount you should be putting in. Furthermore, a lot of people are firing up the bike to get it warm after changing the oil and immediately checking the sight glass, which will read very low when the bike is warm. They throw more oil in and it is way overfilled at that point.

Proper procedure for the V4 is to let the bike fully cool (dealerships wait an hour if you rode it in) and then drain the oil. Ideally, pop the drain plug off and let it drain overnight. Fill it with the proper amount (checking with sightglass), fire the bike up, let it warm up to 3 bars or so, then shut it off. Wait another hour or so and look at the sightglass to check the oil level, top off if necessary.

It's lame but you just can't bang out a 15 minute oil change on these bikes like most others.
 
MaverickiB said:
Warming it up first is NOT proper procedures on the V4.

The V4 operates with a dry sump style system and multiple pumps. Proper procedure is to let the bike fully cool down before doing any draining. If you warm up the bike, a lot of the oil is still up in the motor and does not drain out.

This is the main reason why so many people overfill their V4 motor Ducatis. Conventional motorcycle wisdom does not apply to them. If you change the oil with the motor warm, you will not be able to accurately measure the amount you should be putting in. Furthermore, a lot of people are firing up the bike to get it warm after changing the oil and immediately checking the sight glass, which will read very low when the bike is warm. They throw more oil in and it is way overfilled at that point.

Proper procedure for the V4 is to let the bike fully cool (dealerships wait an hour if you rode it in) and then drain the oil. Ideally, pop the drain plug off and let it drain overnight. Fill it with the proper amount (checking with sightglass), fire the bike up, let it warm up to 3 bars or so, then shut it off. Wait another hour or so and look at the sightglass to check the oil level, top off if necessary.

It's lame but you just can't bang out a 15 minute oil change on these bikes like most others.
Click to expand...

That is the second dumbest oil change procedure I have ever heard of. The first was my Aprilia SXV 550 which I blew up in a race!
 
TomFoolery said:
That is the second dumbest oil change procedure I have ever heard of. The first was my Aprilia SXV 550 which I blew up in a race!
Click to expand...

The cost of having a dry sump system I guess. It's extremely odd how dealerships aren't informing buyers of this difference in process at all. When I got my V4, the lead tech walked me through the whole bike, explaining how stuff worked and what was different, including the oil change process. Feels like everyone else who bought one of these machines is just being handed the keys and told good luck. Seeing a lot of people across multiple forums having issues with oil levels and over/underfilling because nobody ever told them it's different with these motors. Not sure if they aren't doing it because they are lazy or if they just aren't trained to know that. If it's the latter, I'm wondering how many techs are ....... up oil levels on customer bikes.
 

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