Throttle Response Inconsistent
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I beg to differ.
Constant throttle does indeed weight the rear.
And it maintains constant speed.
More throttle simply adds more.
On the street, at 'reasonable' speed or RPM,
I'd say that depending on the turn;
constant throttle position is required.
Yes- throttle is rolled on somewhere upon exit.
And the smoother the better... always, of course.
Everyone's 'apex' is different.
Roll-on depends on curve radius, velocity and line choice.
I'm talking about street riding here.
Lots of safety and legal issues to deal with.
A big, sweeping turn has a posted speed limit
at the beginning, middle and end.
And smokey's radar can be at any one of those points.
Steady throttle is required in some cases.
One rider's idea of this may be way different than myself and others.
Some of us try to ride as smooth on the street as possible,,
always trying to minimize chassis upset.
I've found the Pani less smooth on the street as the competition's products at lower RPM.
I hope to cure that somehow one day.
On the track? Definitely. Hammer it. Roll it on. Pick it up.
Unleash the beast.
I'll be doing that this summer.
Hope y'all will be too
The STK1000 guys looked to be having way too much fun in that last event.
Gosh darn Ninjas...
I agree with George 1000% Constant throttle while in a lean/turn the bike will slow down and go up right and upsetting your front and rear suspension. His saying is not one riders idea but it is the bible at California Superbike School they hammer you over and over about smooth throttle roll on in a turn not just coner exits. This applies to all turns.
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Refresher.....from Motorcycle Mojo, and based on KC's throttle control teachings,
Throttle application gives you a great deal of control over how much weight is on either tire while cornering, and is the key to good suspension set up. With the suspension working the best it can, the bike will feel more stable and will have optimum traction. So, with that in mind, the goal of good throttle control then, is to get on the gas and continue to roll it on through the corner to always maintain the correct weight distribution. Code calls this throttle control rule number one. “Once the throttle is cracked on, it is rolled on evenly, smoothly, and consistently throughout the remainder of the turn.”
So, the next question is, when exactly do you want to get on the gas? Think about it like this, the bike is most stable when you get on the gas. If you wait until the apex or after the apex like a lot of people advocate, then your bike is unstable for over half the turn. The sooner you get on the gas in a corner, the sooner you have the suspension in the right range. Sounds simple enough, right? Well, there are a few things to remember here.
First of all, if you get on the gas while you are still leaning the bike over, it will run wide. So, what that means is that you have to wait until the bike is at the lean angle you want and pointed in the right direction before you start rolling on the gas. As Code puts it, “get on the gas as soon as possible once you have the bike turned. Each moment you hesitate in cracking the gas and getting to the 40/60 weight distribution, reduces your average speed through the turns and lessens control and handling.”
And remember this, if you are too greedy with the throttle and apply too much too fast, then the bike will run wide or risk sliding the rear. If you are lazy with the throttle and only crack it on but don’t continue to roll it on, then the bike will not achieve the correct weight distribution. Or, if you snap off the gas in the middle of a corner it will transfer 70-80% of the weight to the front, which is designed to carry only 35-40% while cornering. Rolling on the gas evens out the weight balance and makes the bike more stable. The most important thing about your throttle control is that it should be smooth and consistently applied.
The way you enter a turn will effect how early and how well you are able to apply the throttle. If you enter a turn too quickly, it is nearly impossible to force your right hand to get on the gas. You end up coasting through the turn, or rolling off mid-turn because you are freaked out that you are going too fast. You now know what affect this has on the bike. It’s better to approach the turn a little slower, roll off the gas, brake, set your speed, get the bike turned and then roll on the gas as soon as possible.
Throttle application gives you a great deal of control over how much weight is on either tire while cornering, and is the key to good suspension set up. With the suspension working the best it can, the bike will feel more stable and will have optimum traction. So, with that in mind, the goal of good throttle control then, is to get on the gas and continue to roll it on through the corner to always maintain the correct weight distribution. Code calls this throttle control rule number one. “Once the throttle is cracked on, it is rolled on evenly, smoothly, and consistently throughout the remainder of the turn.”
So, the next question is, when exactly do you want to get on the gas? Think about it like this, the bike is most stable when you get on the gas. If you wait until the apex or after the apex like a lot of people advocate, then your bike is unstable for over half the turn. The sooner you get on the gas in a corner, the sooner you have the suspension in the right range. Sounds simple enough, right? Well, there are a few things to remember here.
First of all, if you get on the gas while you are still leaning the bike over, it will run wide. So, what that means is that you have to wait until the bike is at the lean angle you want and pointed in the right direction before you start rolling on the gas. As Code puts it, “get on the gas as soon as possible once you have the bike turned. Each moment you hesitate in cracking the gas and getting to the 40/60 weight distribution, reduces your average speed through the turns and lessens control and handling.”
And remember this, if you are too greedy with the throttle and apply too much too fast, then the bike will run wide or risk sliding the rear. If you are lazy with the throttle and only crack it on but don’t continue to roll it on, then the bike will not achieve the correct weight distribution. Or, if you snap off the gas in the middle of a corner it will transfer 70-80% of the weight to the front, which is designed to carry only 35-40% while cornering. Rolling on the gas evens out the weight balance and makes the bike more stable. The most important thing about your throttle control is that it should be smooth and consistently applied.
The way you enter a turn will effect how early and how well you are able to apply the throttle. If you enter a turn too quickly, it is nearly impossible to force your right hand to get on the gas. You end up coasting through the turn, or rolling off mid-turn because you are freaked out that you are going too fast. You now know what affect this has on the bike. It’s better to approach the turn a little slower, roll off the gas, brake, set your speed, get the bike turned and then roll on the gas as soon as possible.
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Yes but, there's another alternative which is a more conservative approach to cornering, and potentially safer on the road, as there's no surprises combined with freaking out whilst all controls are being simulaneously covered.
If one has a constant throttle setting and speed set upon corner entry and maintained until one reaches the apex of the corner, as long as there is a little bit of drag applied to the rear and front brake (in that order) from just before the time you are entering the corner and leaned over, then one will have just as much control over traction and weight distribution through the corner.
Upon reaching the apex, then a gentle release of the rear brake followed by the front and combined with a progressive throttle roll on will provide a safe and controlable dynamic.
The theory behind it is to establish a situation where the suspension is largely in a compressed state with minimised/limited suspension rebound occuring thereby maximising traction, and where one is exploiting most of the available grip through more weight on the tyre contact patch.
Of course it would be of greater benefit when applied whilst riding a cruiser or a normal bike, but on a sports bike there would still be benefits even though a sports bike would in theory have a more controlled and firmer suspension set up.
Cheers
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-- i'm very happy with your last suggestion, so i might give 195lo a try as well
Btw... just a thought.. if you like EBC set at 3, try with it off altogether.
I like this setting the best for commuting in heavy traffic, otherwise for spirited weekend rides, I like it set at 3.
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Why do you like it different for those 2 situations? Because those are my two as well.
-- i did think of that....haven't tried it yet though - from what i can see however, is that OFF would maximize the engine breaking, where as 3 minimizes it (i think i read it that way in the manual) so.......being happy with 3 is good enough...no harm in trying it though......so easy to do
-- did not switch to 195lo yet either......i'm focusing on ordering new tires
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-- i did think of that....haven't tried it yet though - from what i can see however, is that OFF would maximize the engine breaking, where as 3 minimizes it (i think i read it that way in the manual) so.......being happy with 3 is good enough...no harm in trying it though......so easy to do
-- did not switch to 195lo yet either......i'm focusing on ordering new tires
off is none or very little engine braking.. so even less than 3.
PS. When I first read the manual, that is the way I read it as well.. but after playing around with the different settings, I found that EBC off meant that the ECU wasn't controlling or providing any input into engine braking. So she will coast off throttle like any other bike (eg Ninja 250)
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In commuting traffic, I find any sort of EBC from the ECU makes the bike sensitive to small throttle movements, especially when coming off throttle.. I found that I was modulating the clutch heaps to offset this behaviour, so I tried with it off and she rides much like any other bike in traffic.
For spirited weekend rides when there is little or no traffic and I'm moving much quicker, a little EBC is useful when going into corners. It means I don't have to pull on the front brakes as hard and can modulate a little more.
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-- that sounds a bit strange to me......if EBC is off, then the motor would respond as it would with no electronics interfering, so the motor would have its normal engine braking, which is significant, since the pistons of the 1199 are on the large side.....
-- so i think you're interpretation of the manual might not be correct
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perhaps.. or the Italian's english isn't so good..
But in practice.. it is what it is. With EBC off, I find that coming off throttle, the engine isn't braking nearly as much as any of the three EBC modes.
perhaps.. or the Italian's english isn't so good..
But in practice.. it is what it is. With EBC off, I find that coming off throttle, the engine isn't braking nearly as much as any of the three EBC modes.
.....LOL's.....well....here.....read this for yourself:The following table indicates the most suitable level of EBC intervention for the various riding types as well as the default settings in the "Riding Mode" that can be selected by the rider:
EBC
CHARACTERISTIC
DEFAULT
OFF
Maximum engine brake
NO
1
Rather important engine brake, but less than that ob- tained with EBC OFF
It is the default level for all Riding Modes
2
Very low engine brake, recommended only for track use and for riders requiring a low engine brake when decelerating
NO
3
Minimum engine brake, recommended only for track use and for riders preferring a very low engine brake when decelerating
NO
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perhaps.. or the Italian's english isn't so good..
But in practice.. it is what it is. With EBC off, I find that coming off throttle, the engine isn't braking nearly as much as any of the three EBC modes.
Maybe it's broken? Off it should work like a regular bike. The EBC is more of a "slipper" clutch.
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given the above, and for clarity sake, the EBC works to REDUCE engine braking. or in other words, setting the EBC to #1-#3 works to minimize the effects of typical/traditional engine braking (coming off throttle), there will be less of it.
is that correct given what the manual supposedly states?
thanks in advance,
is that correct given what the manual supposedly states?
thanks in advance,
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Yes, that is correct. All EBC setting are reduced engine braking as compared to "off". So logically, the "off" setting should be the jerkiest for city riding. Although not disputing what others are saying... it just logically doesn't make sense that the "off" setting with maximum engine braking would be the smoothest for around town.
-- actually....not exactly true.....the EBC works in conjunction with the slipper clutch - the EBC monitors the wheel locking on de-acceleration and increases rpm's to match that of the bikes speed - the slipper clutch simply slips on de-acceleration (if needed) and has nothing to due with the fueling or rpms
-- i think i said it right
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Here:
The engine braking control system (EBC) works in combination with the slipper clutch to prevent and manage any blockage of the rear wheel when aggressively shifting down. If the system detects any slipping of the wheel, it sends a signal to the control device of the engine, which then slightly increases the rpms until the rear wheel resumes a speed conforming to that of the vehicle.
The engine braking control system (EBC) works in combination with the slipper clutch to prevent and manage any blockage of the rear wheel when aggressively shifting down. If the system detects any slipping of the wheel, it sends a signal to the control device of the engine, which then slightly increases the rpms until the rear wheel resumes a speed conforming to that of the vehicle.
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