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What I think is cool- the “old” wings that came on ‘19 R and “old” motor from ‘19 are sure still plenty competitive this year, and likely still would be next year with no changes.
 
From a business perspective, if I were Ducati I’d just update the aero to the 22 small winglet and call it a day. Or maybe add some new electronics (probably mimic BMW’s slide control - I’d assume this is what cancelled the launch). It would be enough of a change to distinguish a new MY halo motorcycle. And big changes aren’t necessary at this time especially since it’s dominating down the straights and handling is finally sorted. Basically, don’t fix what’s not broken and save money (for the V21L R&D). A world championship will sell these bikes like hot cakes despite the superficial changes.

Similarly, Yamaha hasn’t done much to the R1 over the last few years and they won a WC. Same with Kawa, no ground breaking changes (some engine internals, and chassis geometry IIRC).

BMW is the only make with notable recent updates and they were minor at best. New aero, electronics, and chassis tweaks. You don’t even get a fancy Kalex rear swingarm. The most significant feature of this new BMW is the bang for your buck value.
 
From a financial perspective, the economy (worldwide) is slowing down. Wallets are tighter. Super bike sales aren’t great now and will most likely dip in the next couple years as a result. Why spend money on unknown revolutionary features that will take time to develop (both for the street and race track)? And homologated bikes continue to be capped at 40k so your already tight margins are going to get tighter.

I’m thinking Audi has really shortened Ducati’s leash when it comes to all-new models. It’s been more iterative to maximize the development costs. Look at what they’ve done for the V2 and V4 engined super bikes. They’ve gotten 12 years out of the 99 platform and it’s still going strong now with the PV2. No huge changes, just minor capacity and electronics changes sprinkled with some new fairings. The PV4 platform is only at 5 years old now so it’s maybe midway through its lifecycle.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
People want to lift Yamaha up and say they won a championship when it was won by Toprak who happened to be on a Yamaha. Same with MotoGP. Without Fabio, the next Yamaha is 17th or 18th.
Click to expand...

But a Yamaha did win and they are the defending MotoGP and WSBK champions, you could argue Ducati wouldnt have won without Stoner or they are only winning this season due 8 bikes on the grid
 
SuperDomestique said:
From a financial perspective, the economy (worldwide) is slowing down. Wallets are tighter. Super bike sales aren’t great now and will most likely dip in the next couple years as a result. Why spend money on unknown revolutionary features that will take time to develop (both for the street and race track)? And homologated bikes continue to be capped at 40k so your already tight margins are going to get tighter.

I’m thinking Audi has really shortened Ducati’s leash when it comes to all-new models. It’s been more iterative to maximize the development costs. Look at what they’ve done for the V2 and V4 engined super bikes. They’ve gotten 12 years out of the 99 platform and it’s still going strong now with the PV2. No huge changes, just minor capacity and electronics changes sprinkled with some new fairings. The PV4 platform is only at 5 years old now so it’s maybe midway through its lifecycle.
Click to expand...

It shows you how good the engineering is, the Vtwin is the culmination or ongoing development since 1972 ish as we move forward improvements are increasingly bumping up against the limits of material science, metallurgy etc. I think the biggest steps in the future will be software related.

Ducati have come a long way since their first V4 in the early 60's
Apollo-14.jpg
 
Paul G said:
But a Yamaha did win and they are the defending MotoGP and WSBK champions, you could argue Ducati wouldn't have won without Stoner or they are only winning this season due 8 bikes on the grid
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Did win, past tense. I don't get this defending champion mindset. Every year is a new championship race. Bautista is leading by 56 points and Pecco is a mere two points behind Fabio. The next highest Yamaha is 19th. ...., even Aleix is only 20 points from Fabio. I don't get how those results have guys taking Yamaha to the hair.
 
lets have some context, the difference is fractions of a second and there is a lot more going on like the fact that the Yamaha GP bike is really affected by front tire pressure as it requires a lot edge grip for its corner speed strength. If it has to follow Ducatis it suffers and the Ducati is really good at qualifying plus Its the best bike on the grid at the moment. This is more a battle of inline vs V4 as much as rider, Suzuki in 20 then Yamaha in 21 but I am pretty sure Ducati will win this year. Next year maybe the Marc will dominate again?
 
Honestly I think wrecking ball number 93 has his best days behind him. He’s young but he’s an old man in that sport. I think they let Val stick around as long as he did out of respect. Val’s school is the thing to watch for upcoming talent. Pecco and the VR46 team riders are going to be rising stars for sure.
 
Paul G said:
But a Yamaha did win and they are the defending MotoGP and WSBK champions, you could argue Ducati wouldnt have won without Stoner or they are only winning this season due 8 bikes on the grid
Click to expand...

And Yamaha have won domestic championships in the US and UK. Its definitely a good package within the framework of superbike racing rules. Often takes an outstanding rider to bring a bike and team to the front though.
 
cl955 said:
And Yamaha have won domestic championships in the US and UK. Its definitely a good package within the framework of superbike racing rules. Often takes an outstanding rider to bring a bike and team to the front though.
Click to expand...

Tbf, Brad Ray is leading BSB, on a Yamaha. He won the opening two races of tge season years ago, and never did much else. Clearly an extremely able rider, but maybe a one hit wonder. The last two or three years, he's been on a BMW. This season, his team moved to the R1, and he's smashed the field, and 90% likely to be the champ (last round this weekend).
Same team, same rider, simply swapped machines. The R1 definitely has something, and most riders can extract it, and some riders are exceptional on it.
I'm not sure how good the PV4 is, Bautista seems to be the only rider to really work with it.
In AMA and BSB, it hasn't really lived up to the hype. Even in the CIV, it struggled against the 1199, and the Honda and BMW have looked like easier bikes to ride...
 
bp_SFV4 said:
People want to lift Yamaha up and say they won a championship when it was won by Toprak who happened to be on a Yamaha. Same with MotoGP. Without Fabio, the next Yamaha is 17th or 18th.
Click to expand...
Dude, give it a rest. Yamaha won GP, WSBK BSB and MotoA last year. Ducati as a mfg wasn’t in the ballpark compared to that sweep. Additionally, arguably Motogp is the premier 2 wheeled class, in its 72 year history Ducati has won 1 time. I’m by no means on the Yamaha band wagon but keep it reasonable. I’m sure Duc will win SBK this year and probably Motogp but they had to flood the grid and out spend everyone to do it. I’m all for being a fan but a little goes a long way.
 
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