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As far my opinion goes, I'm definitely voting with my wallet (I am confirmed, with 20% already down), so take whatever I say with a grain of salt (especially given the above talk):
  • The SL represents a pinnacle of engineering. It really is (to me) an example of the engineers asking "what if?". As a result, nothing was spared. Is it radically new and different? Nope. That could certainly be risky in terms of tested performance or ease of maintenance (but they did it anyway with the Desmo). No, this is something else, an evolution of the 1199 line where the goal was to make every component just a little better. The result should be predictable and outstanding performance. As an engineer (albeit software in my case) and a general enthusiast, I love when companies do things like this. It raises the bar and ultimately everyone eventually benefits.
  • The materials used in the SL are why it costs so damned much. It will cost more to do this yourself as a one-off (say, starting the base model and working up), particularly the magnesium frame. Low production runs usually have lower yields and that further drives up cost.
  • There is a huge difference between adding ponies, or taking away pounds. Given the same power:weight ratio, the lighter bike is going to outperform on braking and is likely to be quicker to turn, etc.
  • Performance is not just measured in lap times. Sure, many people here won't be able to get competitive lap times just because they are on a top-notch bike - but it doesn't mean their own numbers won't improve compared to being on other bikes. Think about our ultimate wish-list of performance characteristics: smooth power curve (predictable), always torque when you need it, short breaking, quick turning, great feel (stable and communicative). These things contribute to better lap times, but make riding all the more amazing no matter what you are clocking.
  • It is completely unnecessary. You know what else is? Your bike. Or any other bike with 200 horses. So if we can all agree that we reserve the right to fold in insanely-over-the-top performance even when completely unnecessary (especially for public roads), then consider this an experiment to see how far you can take it. We're just quibbling over shades of gray at some point.
  • The whole is worth more than the sum of the parts. As someone who loves to modify and tweak and squeeze out every bit of performance, every time we mechanically (or electrically, etc) modify our machines, we are reducing mean-time-between-failure. We do it anyway: that pursuit of perfection is worth the tax of a finicky machine. Imagine if a bike just came "done". Everything was done, by design, from the beginning, at the factory. I may be deluding myself here, because surely I'll find something to do upon receipt, but this certainly is as close to done as it gets off the factory floor.
  • There is non-linear scale in the top X%. That is to say, you can really far, really fast, really cheap (any Japanese bike compared to Ducati, BMW, MV), but pushing the bleeding edge is exponentially more expensive. Every extra horsepower, or every saved gram on a MotoGP bike is where the money is being spent.

Anyway, it's not for everyone. It's hard to justify a cost like this when you think of what you could get instead. It's not going to make you happy if you are not already happy. It's not going to make your dick bigger, and not having it isn't going to make it smaller either. It's just a great result of pushing the limits, and I hope it lives up to the hype.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Jello. The only thing I would add, is that numbers don't even tell the whole story with this bike, the same way they don't with the D16RR. It's not just the level of performance (although that is incredible), but also the way in which its performance is made/delivered, due to the radically lightened internals, drivetrain, etc. Its character is truly something special, as you'll see.

The Superleggera is intended for people like you. I hope you enjoy it.
 
Couldn't have said it better myself, Jello. The only thing I would add, is that numbers don't even tell the whole story with this bike, the same way they don't with the D16RR. It's not just the level of performance (although that is incredible), but also the way in which its performance is made/delivered, due to the radically lightened internals, drivetrain, etc. Its character is truly something special, as you'll see.

The Superleggera is intended for people like you. I hope you enjoy it.

And me. I just need to sell a kidney to afford one. :(
 
Kope which statement is the oversimplification ?

The whole thing? Calling it just a lighter frame and some aftermarket parts is silly and dismisses the bike's actual spec.

Someone want to make your own SL? Good luck having a mag frame sand-cast with correct stiffness and dimensions, that has been properly stress-analysed, and bolting it in with the proper fasteners to account for galvanic properties of the metals (unless you really like corrosion).

Good luck finding the dedicated cams, don't forget to add ti exhaust valves or the profiles will be too aggressive. Good luck getting a comparable crankshaft and 2-ring pistons, and setting up the motor so that it has some reliability and streetability. Spend some time on that squish area!

Better get on the phone to Europe and call Ohlins to see if they'll sell you the custom forks, Marchesini for the wheels, and ask Brembo when their MCS master cylinder will be available.

Also, you'll want an electronics guru to develop anti-wheelie, lean angle data acquisition, and auto-calibration for the rear wheel, as well as some dedicated control buttons. Make sure it all integrates perfectly with your existing stuff.

Next you need to call your carbon guy, and get him working on a subframe and fairings. Keep your fingers crossed that those are made to OEM spec.

Then comes the machinist to duplicate the billet aluminium footpegs, triple clamp, radiator cap, and a few small other things. Hope he's also experienced in working ti, because there are around 130 bolts fasteners etc that'll need to be created.

Most of the rest of the stuff, I guess you could call aftermarket parts. I'm sure someone sells the MotoGP chain, SBK sprocket, ti shock spring, remote brake lever adjuster, etc. The TTX36 shock and lithium battery should be easy to source, the two full ti street and race Akrapovic exhausts a little less so. One thing's for sure - keep your checkbook open and your schedule free.

Ironically, you actually won't have to call your sticker guy, save him for when you build an Aprilia.

When it's all said and done, I guess you'll have a reasonable facsimile of the SL. It would be nice if someone would offer you a warranty on it, although I think that's unlikely. And hopefully if the time ever comes to sell it, you find a prospective buyer who appreciates and values your creation just as much as a true, numbered factory special, and will pay a comparable price. Or, if you want to spend another huge chunk of time parting it out, maybe you won't eat too much depreciation on the parts!

I'll keep my fingers crossed.....:D
 
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The whole thing? Calling it just a lighter frame and some aftermarket parts is silly and dismisses the bike's actual spec.

Someone want to make your own SL? Good luck having a mag frame sand-cast with correct stiffness and dimensions, that has been properly stress-analysed, and bolting it in with the proper fasteners to account for galvanic properties of the metals (unless you really like corrosion).

Good luck finding the dedicated cams, don't forget to add ti exhaust valves or the profiles will be too aggressive. Good luck getting a comparable crankshaft and 2-ring pistons, and setting up the motor so that it has some reliability and streetability. Spend some time on that squish area!

Better get on the phone to Europe and call Ohlins to see if they'll sell you the custom forks, Marchesini for the wheels, and ask Brembo when their MCS master cylinder will be available.

Also, you'll want an electronics guru to develop anti-wheelie, lean angle data acquisition, and auto-calibration for the rear wheel, as well as some dedicated control buttons. Make sure it all integrates perfectly with your existing stuff.

Next you need to call your carbon guy, and get him working on a subframe and fairings. Keep your fingers crossed that those are made to OEM spec.

Then comes the machinist to duplicate the billet aluminium footpegs, triple clamp, radiator cap, and a few small other things. Hope he's also experienced in working ti, because there are around 130 bolts fasteners etc that'll need to be created.

Most of the rest of the stuff, I guess you could call aftermarket parts. I'm sure someone sells the MotoGP chain, SBK sprocket, ti shock spring, remote brake lever adjuster, etc. The TTX36 shock and lithium battery should be easy to source, the two full ti street and race Akrapovic exhausts a little less so. One thing's for sure - keep your checkbook open and your schedule free.

Ironically, you actually won't have to call your sticker guy, save him for when you build an Aprilia.

When it's all said and done, I guess you'll have a reasonable facsimile of the SL. It would be nice if someone would offer you a warranty on it, although I think that's unlikely. And hopefully if the time ever comes to sell it, you find a prospective buyer who appreciates and values your creation just as much as a true, numbered factory special, and will pay a comparable price. Or, if you want to spend another huge chunk of time parting it out, maybe you won't eat too much depreciation on the parts!

I'll keep my fingers crossed.....:D


do you work for DUCATI? ;)
 
That was my *third* comment on this thread...what's really beating a dead horse is your consistent bias against the bike. How many times are you going to tell us you don't think it's worth it? :confused:

Why do you describe a person having a different opinion than yourself as "biased"??? I have stated my opinion is subjective and mine alone..
 
Why do you describe a person having a different opinion than yourself as "biased"??? I have stated my opinion is subjective and mine alone..

:p :D you're quite alone with this opinion :D :p


the beating of the dead horse is not pointed at you directly TJ99, just the fact, that his has been elaborated on page 'twirtwelve' of this thread already.

it's all :cool:
 
Why do you describe a person having a different opinion than yourself as "biased"??? I have stated my opinion is subjective and mine alone..

You've spent quite a few posts explaining that you don't think the Superleggera is "worth it," and have very little actual information/understanding about the bike. If that doesn't indicate what you would call bias then fair enough, feel free to substitute a better word. :)

As far as differing opinions, I haven't really stated mine, only tried to show that characterizing it as just a lighter frame and some bolt-ons is simply wrong (which it seems some people still do not realize, so I don't think it's beating a dead horse).

For sure, it's not the bike for everyone. It's not meant to be. But let's not sell short the effort that has been put into it. You can't build something equivalent for half the price, I promise. ;)
 
You've spent quite a few posts explaining that you don't think the Superleggera is "worth it," and have very little actual information/understanding about the bike. If that doesn't indicate what you would call bias then fair enough, feel free to substitute a better word. :)

As far as differing opinions, I haven't really stated mine, only tried to show that characterizing it as just a lighter frame and some bolt-ons is simply wrong (which it seems some people still do not realize, so I don't think it's beating a dead horse).

For sure, it's not the bike for everyone. It's not meant to be. But let's not sell short the effort that has been put into it. You can't build something equivalent for half the price, I promise. ;)

Thank you for that characterisation and welcome to the forum..:)
 
You've spent quite a few posts explaining that you don't think the Superleggera is "worth it," and have very little actual information/understanding about the bike. If that doesn't indicate what you would call bias then fair enough, feel free to substitute a better word. :)

As far as differing opinions, I haven't really stated mine, only tried to show that characterizing it as just a lighter frame and some bolt-ons is simply wrong (which it seems some people still do not realize, so I don't think it's beating a dead horse).

For sure, it's not the bike for everyone. It's not meant to be. But let's not sell short the effort that has been put into it. You can't build something equivalent for half the price, I promise. ;)

I for one and open to the big differences. Take an R(30K), add the Akra (3.5K), lithium battery(.15K), shocks (if were available), and calipers - what else makes it stand out as a lower weight and better bike? Definitely over half, but way under $65.
 
I for one and open to the big differences. Take an R(30K), add the Akra (3.5K), lithium battery(.15K), shocks (if were available), and calipers - what else makes it stand out as a lower weight and better bike? Definitely over half, but way under $65.

Akra - 3.5k
Battery - $150
Shocks - 3k?
Calipers - 2k?

You forgot -

Mag Wheels - 3.5k
SECOND Akra exhaust - 3.5k
Carbon Subframe - 4k (Ive seen one for 4k)
Carbon fairings - 5k???
Rearsets - $1200
Mag Frame - 4k?
Ti bolts - 1k?
Advanced Electronics (wheelie control) - 5k?
Forged pistons - $1200


Thats about 30k right there.
 
lots of dead horse beating here. So i'll continue the trend... so the SL is roughly twice as much as an R. A Veyron is not twice, or three times, but over 10 times as much as a Nissan GTR, or 4x as much as some Ferraris. is that "worth it" for the added performance? If you have the money, and it makes you smile, sure it is. I don't understand the point fo debating the "worth it" issue. Is any car worth 1-2 million? is the SL worth $65k? All I can say is that the Veyron sold out and I'm sure the SL will too, so enough people certainly think it is. If you had a relative net worth over a billion like most that buy a veyron, why the hell would you NOT buy the SL if you were in the market for a sportbike?
 

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