1199R vs 1299S - Which is better?

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kope999R said:
hi guys... this is interesting.... if i am not mistaken ( which i sure could be) i think to have seen some diff specs on the internal briefing sheets for the R engine... any idea from when this journo stuff is ? there was a time when it would be all ti valves and then no longer... we know that final specs were kept to the very very last minute in order to optimise what should and should not go in to suit the WSBK rules and still keep the buildcost of the R to a minimum...

in any case... the 15R must be one of the cheapest R's they ever built considering the specs ...
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Kope, the stats I post are directly from Ducati.com. No journo stuff.
 
I think another important difference to note, are the obstacles they were built to endure. Simply put, I don't think the Pani R will have near the longevity of the 1299S, or the 1199 R. Sacrifices in durability had to of been made in designing a bike with such a singular focus. It makes me wonder if all the homologation hype surrounding it isn't solely a marketing strategy, but partly a disclosure statement. Its no secret how often race bikes are rebuilt.

Statements such as these only exacerbate that belief.
"The Panigale R is also fitted with a clutch designed specifically for racing as well as a series of technical features that ensure maximum performance even after long distances, considering the strict regulations on power unit quotas in races reserved for modified production bikes."
They state right off the bat the design focus, followed with a remark on how longevity was improved to reassure concerned consumers. What they don't disclose is the frame of reference to which "long distances" applies. Are we talking an endurance race, a race season, or 50,000 miles? I doubt its the latter.

The lightweight crank, flywheel, among other components might not be built for the stresses of a commuter bike. I'm not knocking the bike, it is the epitome of perfection in my opinion, but that doesn't make me any more confident concerning its durability.
 
Ashes said:
I think another important difference to note, are the obstacles they were built to endure. Simply put, I don't think the Pani R will have near the longevity of the 1299S, or the 1199 R. Sacrifices in durability had to of been made in designing a bike with such a singular focus. It makes me wonder if all the homologation hype surrounding it isn't solely a marketing strategy, but partly a disclosure statement. Its no secret how often race bikes are rebuilt.

Statements such as these only exacerbate that belief.
"The Panigale R is also fitted with a clutch designed specifically for racing as well as a series of technical features that ensure maximum performance even after long distances, considering the strict regulations on power unit quotas in races reserved for modified production bikes."
They state right off the bat the design focus, followed with a remark on how longevity was improved to reassure concerned consumers. What they don't disclose is the frame of reference to which "long distances" applies. Are we talking an endurance race, a race season, or 50,000 miles? I doubt its the latter.

The lightweight crank, flywheel, among other components might not be built for the stresses of a commuter bike. I'm not knocking the bike, it is the epitome of perfection in my opinion, but that doesn't make me any more confident concerning its durability.
Click to expand...

Well, potential customers who will be "commuting" shouldn't be in the market for the Panigale R. It's a race bike like you stated above. As for longevity, since WSBK has such stringent rules on the # of engines and not being able to fix internal issues, I bet it would be fine for us average Joe club racers.
 
Ashes said:
I think another important difference to note, are the obstacles they were built to endure. Simply put, I don't think the Pani R will have near the longevity of the 1299S, or the 1199 R. Sacrifices in durability had to of been made in designing a bike with such a singular focus. It makes me wonder if all the homologation hype surrounding it isn't solely a marketing strategy, but partly a disclosure statement. Its no secret how often race bikes are rebuilt.

Statements such as these only exacerbate that belief.
"The Panigale R is also fitted with a clutch designed specifically for racing as well as a series of technical features that ensure maximum performance even after long distances, considering the strict regulations on power unit quotas in races reserved for modified production bikes."
They state right off the bat the design focus, followed with a remark on how longevity was improved to reassure concerned consumers. What they don't disclose is the frame of reference to which "long distances" applies. Are we talking an endurance race, a race season, or 50,000 miles? I doubt its the latter.

The lightweight crank, flywheel, among other components might not be built for the stresses of a commuter bike. I'm not knocking the bike, it is the epitome of perfection in my opinion, but that doesn't make me any more confident concerning its durability.
Click to expand...

What are the stresses of a commuter bike ? Sounds like your shopping in the wrong aisle .
 
Ashes said:
I think another important difference to note, are the obstacles they were built to endure. Simply put, I don't think the Pani R will have near the longevity of the 1299S, or the 1199 R. Sacrifices in durability had to of been made in designing a bike with such a singular focus. It makes me wonder if all the homologation hype surrounding it isn't solely a marketing strategy, but partly a disclosure statement. Its no secret how often race bikes are rebuilt.

Statements such as these only exacerbate that belief.
"The Panigale R is also fitted with a clutch designed specifically for racing as well as a series of technical features that ensure maximum performance even after long distances, considering the strict regulations on power unit quotas in races reserved for modified production bikes."
They state right off the bat the design focus, followed with a remark on how longevity was improved to reassure concerned consumers. What they don't disclose is the frame of reference to which "long distances" applies. Are we talking an endurance race, a race season, or 50,000 miles? I doubt its the latter.

The lightweight crank, flywheel, among other components might not be built for the stresses of a commuter bike. I'm not knocking the bike, it is the epitome of perfection in my opinion, but that doesn't make me any more confident concerning its durability.
Click to expand...

The Panigale R isn't a race bike. It's a platform upon which you (and Ducati) can build one. Homologation bikes are racing platforms not race bikes out of the crate. It is much the same way that the AR-15 isn't an assault rifle but it is a platform you could build one on.

In any case a commuter R is almost as sad as a SL that never gets tracked. The bike deserves better.
 
No matter what or how it does, the Panigale R is just another shining example of how Ducati gives us what we want - the closest thing to a race bike for the street - it cannot be an actual race bike with blinkers and mirrors, as even the Sedici wasn't a GP bike - but, its as close as any mfgr brings us (god, the SL is closer even!), and reliability issues has proven that the factory knows more than enough to give us just what the consumer street guy can tolerate...

Panigale R - buy it, ride it, write your own article...it will be a good one regardless of the possible dealer/warranty visits....people will read it :)
 
Xbox said:
Mounts for the panniers and a basket;)
Click to expand...

Precisely. :D Let's be logical about this though, while i agree such an amazing machine deserves better than a 9-5 commute, I'd also say its safe to assume the majority of buyers won't be tracking, let alone racing the bike. Hell, how many will buy it just to have in their stable or as a show piece and never use it. We understand its purpose, we know there are platforms better suited for street riding, yet every man continually wants the biggest baddest bike money can buy. So for the man who actually buys it to ride it, I say bravo. Maybe it wasn't what what the bike was designed for, but at least its being used. Which brings us back to my initial concern. When we find R's assuming that role or god forbid, Antihero gets his hands on one;), I for one am interested to see the outcome. Wilkson, I don't know of anything a commuter could throw at this bike that a pro racer wouldn't demand of it, except the duration of use. Hence the longevity concerns, but who knows, maybe the Pani R becomes the new benchmark for Honda reliability. ;)
 
Last edited:
To clarify, my primary concern stems from the use of dual ring, short skirt pistons. Add high compression to the mix, not forgetting the massive bore these bikes have, and I foresee a myriad of issues. On the bottom of that list, I wouldn't be surprised if blow by, and oil consumption become a common issue.
 
Ashes said:
To clarify, my primary concern stems from the use of dual ring, short skirt pistons. Add high compression to the mix, not forgetting the massive bore these bikes have, and I foresee a myriad of issues. On the bottom of that list, I wouldn't be surprised if blow by, and oil consumption become a common issue.
Click to expand...

I've never had to check or worry or even put any oil in a 1098R let alone the SL. So can't see any of them being 'oil burners'.
 
Depends how it was run in.........

Going back to the original statement of 1299 vs 1199R. Who knows, there's no Panigale R review yet.

Realistically, the S will appeal to the masses as the rider aids will allow 205 bhp to be more accessible/useable to the everyday rider.

The R will be for the purist and the racer, a handful in places as was the SL.
 
Thanks for this thread, i am now pretty sure i made the right decision to go with the R.
 
Styler said:
I think the real question is what bike is better suited to the application of your friend. The question around "blowing it out of the water" sounds a tad juvenile.
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Agreed.

All of them are limited by the skills of the rider. Hell, in 99% of the cases a 10 year old 600cc is still limited by the skills of the rider.
 
Buliwyf said:
Bragging rights are stupid.

Everyone that claims a bike can blow another out of the water, or into the water, or over a Twinkie, needs to post some credibility. Lap times at a track or something.

I'm tired of slow arse ......s telling me how fast a bike is or isn't.

We need a lap time signature or something. I'm slow for example. Don't take advice from me over why a bike is better on a track than another. Maybe my sig should say: "Slow guy. Ignore bragging rights and race bike recommendations from this guy." And the guys who can actually ride, it would just say "1:24 (Mid Ohio)" So we know they aren't full of it when they say an R is faster than a 1299.

It's pathetic. It's like a 98 pound kid that can't lift 100 pounds asking which is a better brand of 150 pound weights. And then a bunch of weak internet jockeys jump in. "BMW has 151 pound weights now!, I'm going to lift those!"

So the 85 year old lady next door, who can't drive faster than 55 without having a heart attack, told me that the Ferrari 458 is a better car than a Porsche 911 turbo because potato. How should I respond to that? Just say "Yeah potato." ??? And leave? Or should I have a long winded conversation of why Porsche potatos may still be better?
___________________________________

The 1299 is a bigger engine version of the 1199. That doesn't make it faster for me because I'm not even ringing out the 1199's engine, or even a slower GSXR 750 for that matter. And an 1199R is just plain crazy potatos. So whats the point?
Click to expand...

I know it is old, I came across this post while searching for something else. I just wanted to quote this and say this is one of the best and most logical posts I have seen on this forum, or any other.

Well said Sir.
 

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