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Wow the DP race looks much thicker. What are your thoughts on it for padding?
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Wow the DP race looks much thicker. What are your thoughts on it for padding?
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
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- belgium
Mettet – Ride report R and S1000RR
When it comes to tracks, where we live, Spa stands out much byond what the world has to offer in general. And the there Zolder and the mini track Mettet. Very much a stop and go track where almost most turns are tight to very tight. Apart from the straight and one 192 kph sweaper, it’s a second and third gear occasion. Where a well ridden Supersport can run with the litre bikes easily.. so not exactly the preffered track for the R.. But with the new BBS installed and many tight corner exits, a good test track for the occasion. And finally get a little more aggressive on the brakes. And , a mate of mine is an instructor for the BMW test experience so I could finish the day with a session on the 1000RR to topple it up.. An excellent opportunity to be able to get a first hand feel of this much acclaimed monster . Would it be really as good as everybody seems to find it?
Furthermore, there would be optimal weather conditions. some sun but not too hot..
First session was still a damp occasion so it was rather slow going. But still a good 20 minutes to find out on the track. On slicks it was good to see that even in the damp that the slicks gave considerably more grip and traction then I thought there would have been. I thought the yellow light would be on all the time but it wasn’t. not once did it come on.. something that made me wonder..
Having just done Spa and Assen, 2 of the most endearing bike tracks around.. Mettet proved midget and difficult. And hard to overtake. But as they had dropped me in the fastest group pace was good so no moving chicanes to navigate. As said, the intention was to find out about braking and so we upped that work. Braking harder and harder and then later and later. Just to find out that with the setup , it was not hard at all to start outbraking almost every groupmember. The magic came when it was clear that it is not that hard to brake deep into the corner with monstrous bite and still loads of feel coming from the 2 finger pressure. Me still being an all geared up 97 kg occasion, it also showed the adagio that weight ( or the lack of it) outperforms power. Totalling less the 290kg it helped to get the overhand on combo’ where the rider weighs 25kg lighter. It also revealed that the forks will take some setup as some dribble did show. Monday the bike is going in with EMC ² , our very knowledgable Ohlins man who advises top teams in IDM and endurance racing on geometry, setup and telemetry… apart from removing the DES on the rear shock, correct spring settings, valving and oil level, the aim to have a full weightbalance based setup is what sould come out of it… and once this basic setup will be done, then it will just be some small adjustments per track..
As the track dried up, lap times came down and even though it never felt like it, I was able to maintain myself in the better half of fast group with a best of 1:14 where as good riders rarely get it below 1:12 … again, that time never felt as if it was a quick time and this for 1 main reaon : the dip between 5 and 8k revs.. the infamous dip. I son’t think there is a track where it can be felt better..
Let it be said : The R sort of pronounces this dip. Another mate LJ brought his fully setup R to the track for the first time and noticed this as well. He just had traded in his base bike for the R. But this bike had been mapped to get 198 bhp but mainly a much smoother way to get there, almost dialling out the dip. So using the corners to gain tens of metres on other, and being able to get a good exit spot, the lag of pickup getting out of it was rather frustrating. R1’s and RR got away that couple of meters to be reeled in just to late to go for a clean outbraking… It also made gear choice an unhappy thing. 3rd would get you lower in the rev range, prononciating the dip but second would get is so agressivly that you’ld be on the rearwheel at every corner you come out of… because let this be clear, once above 7,5 it really packs a tremendous punch.. a punch that comes in extremely quickly , almost 2 stroke like.. it will power wheelie in second and third even with me all over the tank.. use the QS quickly becomes part of the must do’s when riding it..
When discussing all this with LJ, we came to the conclusion that the Pro pipe should be able to resolve most of this grief and that it will have a tremendous effect on the bike will ride.. as discussed earlier, much of the dip can be dialled out using a rapidbike module and some decent mapping, but Ducati having taken a firm stand on aftermarket enginemanagement systems cancelling out warranty, we now await the pro pipe eagerly as this should be the key to getting our goal, getting more power and grunt earlier. There is news of the first ones being delivered now, so end of this month should be good.
The last session of the day was used to push it a bit further, but the best time remaind 1:14:22 ..
The bike got all packed up and then there was the test of the beemer still to go.. they were stock models and tires so the basic package straight out of the dealers showroom..
Even on the first lap , it was clear immediately why this is probably the most sensible superbike to have. Of course it’s not as nimble as the Pani, especially in the track weapon version it is now, but for the rest, there is really nothing to be faulted. It does everything so well it is eerie… perhaps already being accustomed to the bang effect of the pani, the silky, rubberband power delivery doesn’t make it feel like the powerexplosion that it is said to have. Or perhaps it the the very good wind protection but the power is so smooth the straight are very relaxing.. not so on the pani as the smaller bubble makes you live every yard intensely… but then again the difference with how to get out of the corners was very noticeable and less troublesome. The Beemer does what is is said to do. It makes it all look like so easy.. we were going fast as of lap 2 with no worries whatsoever.. but due to the Bridgestones street tires, fast was a lot slower than fast on slicks as almost the whole group overtook us. Which was not the case on the Pani, where only 3 locals ran considerably faster. Again I saw no reason to change from Pirelli. The tires were good but not impressively. When getting out of a corner when I tad to well, she stepped out at the rear and that was like the signal to call it a day…
The stepping out did have a sobering effect but also showed the fact that TCS is not a “idiot proof” – insurance. I still have to come to terms with what it does when and it now even got me thinking of my TCS module was working at all. The rear would move gently but it never saw the light go on once .. and then there was the “unknown device” error message… so perhaps it isn’t activated yet, even though the lights on settings did work now, where it didn’t before the BBS settings activation job that was done this week.
So now a busy project week ahead : going to the Ohlins guru, picking up the painted carbon seat unit and hopefully the 999 racing front fairing. Getting the 999 track-ready with a racing bracketholder and the fairing and installing the GPS timer module. ..
When it comes to tracks, where we live, Spa stands out much byond what the world has to offer in general. And the there Zolder and the mini track Mettet. Very much a stop and go track where almost most turns are tight to very tight. Apart from the straight and one 192 kph sweaper, it’s a second and third gear occasion. Where a well ridden Supersport can run with the litre bikes easily.. so not exactly the preffered track for the R.. But with the new BBS installed and many tight corner exits, a good test track for the occasion. And finally get a little more aggressive on the brakes. And , a mate of mine is an instructor for the BMW test experience so I could finish the day with a session on the 1000RR to topple it up.. An excellent opportunity to be able to get a first hand feel of this much acclaimed monster . Would it be really as good as everybody seems to find it?
Furthermore, there would be optimal weather conditions. some sun but not too hot..
First session was still a damp occasion so it was rather slow going. But still a good 20 minutes to find out on the track. On slicks it was good to see that even in the damp that the slicks gave considerably more grip and traction then I thought there would have been. I thought the yellow light would be on all the time but it wasn’t. not once did it come on.. something that made me wonder..
Having just done Spa and Assen, 2 of the most endearing bike tracks around.. Mettet proved midget and difficult. And hard to overtake. But as they had dropped me in the fastest group pace was good so no moving chicanes to navigate. As said, the intention was to find out about braking and so we upped that work. Braking harder and harder and then later and later. Just to find out that with the setup , it was not hard at all to start outbraking almost every groupmember. The magic came when it was clear that it is not that hard to brake deep into the corner with monstrous bite and still loads of feel coming from the 2 finger pressure. Me still being an all geared up 97 kg occasion, it also showed the adagio that weight ( or the lack of it) outperforms power. Totalling less the 290kg it helped to get the overhand on combo’ where the rider weighs 25kg lighter. It also revealed that the forks will take some setup as some dribble did show. Monday the bike is going in with EMC ² , our very knowledgable Ohlins man who advises top teams in IDM and endurance racing on geometry, setup and telemetry… apart from removing the DES on the rear shock, correct spring settings, valving and oil level, the aim to have a full weightbalance based setup is what sould come out of it… and once this basic setup will be done, then it will just be some small adjustments per track..
As the track dried up, lap times came down and even though it never felt like it, I was able to maintain myself in the better half of fast group with a best of 1:14 where as good riders rarely get it below 1:12 … again, that time never felt as if it was a quick time and this for 1 main reaon : the dip between 5 and 8k revs.. the infamous dip. I son’t think there is a track where it can be felt better..
Let it be said : The R sort of pronounces this dip. Another mate LJ brought his fully setup R to the track for the first time and noticed this as well. He just had traded in his base bike for the R. But this bike had been mapped to get 198 bhp but mainly a much smoother way to get there, almost dialling out the dip. So using the corners to gain tens of metres on other, and being able to get a good exit spot, the lag of pickup getting out of it was rather frustrating. R1’s and RR got away that couple of meters to be reeled in just to late to go for a clean outbraking… It also made gear choice an unhappy thing. 3rd would get you lower in the rev range, prononciating the dip but second would get is so agressivly that you’ld be on the rearwheel at every corner you come out of… because let this be clear, once above 7,5 it really packs a tremendous punch.. a punch that comes in extremely quickly , almost 2 stroke like.. it will power wheelie in second and third even with me all over the tank.. use the QS quickly becomes part of the must do’s when riding it..
When discussing all this with LJ, we came to the conclusion that the Pro pipe should be able to resolve most of this grief and that it will have a tremendous effect on the bike will ride.. as discussed earlier, much of the dip can be dialled out using a rapidbike module and some decent mapping, but Ducati having taken a firm stand on aftermarket enginemanagement systems cancelling out warranty, we now await the pro pipe eagerly as this should be the key to getting our goal, getting more power and grunt earlier. There is news of the first ones being delivered now, so end of this month should be good.
The last session of the day was used to push it a bit further, but the best time remaind 1:14:22 ..
The bike got all packed up and then there was the test of the beemer still to go.. they were stock models and tires so the basic package straight out of the dealers showroom..
Even on the first lap , it was clear immediately why this is probably the most sensible superbike to have. Of course it’s not as nimble as the Pani, especially in the track weapon version it is now, but for the rest, there is really nothing to be faulted. It does everything so well it is eerie… perhaps already being accustomed to the bang effect of the pani, the silky, rubberband power delivery doesn’t make it feel like the powerexplosion that it is said to have. Or perhaps it the the very good wind protection but the power is so smooth the straight are very relaxing.. not so on the pani as the smaller bubble makes you live every yard intensely… but then again the difference with how to get out of the corners was very noticeable and less troublesome. The Beemer does what is is said to do. It makes it all look like so easy.. we were going fast as of lap 2 with no worries whatsoever.. but due to the Bridgestones street tires, fast was a lot slower than fast on slicks as almost the whole group overtook us. Which was not the case on the Pani, where only 3 locals ran considerably faster. Again I saw no reason to change from Pirelli. The tires were good but not impressively. When getting out of a corner when I tad to well, she stepped out at the rear and that was like the signal to call it a day…
The stepping out did have a sobering effect but also showed the fact that TCS is not a “idiot proof” – insurance. I still have to come to terms with what it does when and it now even got me thinking of my TCS module was working at all. The rear would move gently but it never saw the light go on once .. and then there was the “unknown device” error message… so perhaps it isn’t activated yet, even though the lights on settings did work now, where it didn’t before the BBS settings activation job that was done this week.
So now a busy project week ahead : going to the Ohlins guru, picking up the painted carbon seat unit and hopefully the 999 racing front fairing. Getting the 999 track-ready with a racing bracketholder and the fairing and installing the GPS timer module. ..
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,044
- Location
- belgium
To do list after Donington and Brands.
Ok, now that the major esthetical issues are done with ( apart from some last bits to be bolted on) where do we stand with the development of the bike. So perhaps a roundup of issues is to be made.
Nr 1 issue: as funny as it seems, the throttle is hard for to get fully open. It has to travel at least 15% too far down to fully open. And it is a well-known fact that for control reasons, the engine only starts giving a 100% response to the throttle above 70% opening. Looking at the DDA data from Brands, it shows I never had the throttle open for more than 73%! And therefore the average max rev was about 10K. Ducati being proud that the R will do 12K, that leaves 2K unused. And it shows. I did not outrun any other bikes on straights. This said, I wonder if I’ll be able to handle to whole cavalry when it shows up..
Nr2 issue : the power band between 5 – 10K. Let s be clear, even with some throttle mapping, the EVO pipe leaves quit a hole below 8K. And weighing more 70% than Pedrosa does not do much good to make me fly out of corners. Not only is there a hole, the rush of power between 7 and 11 is very 2 stroke like. The influx of horses is pretty brutal and far from easy to manage. This type of power delivery is the main issue when trying to choose gears for particular corners
Nr 3 issue : the importance of riding gear. Not wanting to ‘overdo’ it, I came to the conclusion that ,as stated in a previous post, I’ll need a new racing suit and especially boots. Why, I found out that, after losing 19kgs and buying the boots ½ a size too tall , I do move but seem to be moving within my gear. I’m only transferring 50% of my body movement in actual movement on the bike. I also found multiple occasions when while accelerating, I skid backwards 6 cm before my suit to grip me. This translated in rough throttle management with some unwarranted surges as a result. Nothing disastrous , but still very much unwanted. It’s not a bad thing to be able to stay over the tank and not slid backwards on a bike that tends to wheelie in 2/3/4 just on the gas. And it feels like you’re hardly in control. I’m also sure that having a suit flapping around does the already tiny bubble and therefore fragile aerodynamics no good anywhere. For the boots : as my foot seems to be moving in the boot rather than making the boot move on a 1on1 relationship, it results in far too many gear change foul-ups as the right pressure is not always guaranteed. There is almost 1 issue every 2 sessions which, on track, is not to be had. So it’s off to the suit maker DAMEN next week. But that is the easy part.
Perhaps the most important 2 hours of the UK days were spent in Winchester, with Steve Moore, the brains and chief behind the Moto Rapido BSB team. Steve had been so kind to invite us to the team to have a close look at the RS and Superstock bikes his team runs. Now, of course, such a visit is always a thing not to be missed, but Moto Rapido and Steve himself have quit a peculiar spot in the realm of Panigale development. With some ultra-interesting aspects that at first peep can be easily missed. Steve actually has been developing the Pani for BSB before Corse started prepping for WSBK. Add to that the fact that BSB does not allow for any electronic aids to assist the rider ( ABS/TCS/LC….) and having to make the wild RS rideable with those amount of power on tap, has given some very important and ultra-rare insights in setting this bike up. To the fore jumped 2 things: When does the power come in, and how to link power delivery through throttle control.
To put the aim in simple terms: let’s find power way earlier and especially smoother and more controllable. The parts and items to do this have shown to be the exhausts and their subsequent engine and fuel mapping, throttle management to feather the power in and EBC to smoothen out the impact of the enormous pistons.
There has been a lot of confusion on what pipes are now available for the Pani. For clarity reasons, it should be considered that 50% of these options are for the R only. There is no guarantee that all can be done on the base engines. There is a good chance, but no guarantee. Why? Because it is now generally admitted that for racing or intense track use, the R engine is the one to go for. Not for its power aspects , just for reliability issues. If you ride it hard, get some titanium internals. iow: get an R.
So what are the possibilities to exhausts.
To all:
Street pipe + map ( = on the bikes when delivered)
Termi slip ons + map ( add on )
Evo line ( full termi system with Ti cans) + map (replacement system – included with R package)
For R only:
Pro manifold ( same TI cans - 16CM + over EVO manifold – through the swing arm) – is in the DP accessories list ( 2K euros extra over Evo) with long wait.
SBK manifold ( same TI cans – 30cm + over EVO manifold – bypassing the swing arm) – Corse access ( 3K 3 parts pipe / 6K euros full system) only and today considered as Unobtainium. When at Rapido, DHL just dropped such pipe with serial nr “002” on it..
Detail : the Titanium version of this pipe is Alstare only for the moment.
A pipe, you can bolt on. A map you can activate but the key to get all this working together is the Superstock ECU. As this ecu lets tuners and racing engineers to bring all the aspects together. It let’s you set all parameters of the bike in different modes as it lets you reprogram the Riding modes from the bottom up. “You” here being an expert of Steve’s calibre.
So what we will have to find out per bike is
1. What will the pro pipe bring us? We already know that the dip will get worse below 6,5K and but that the curve will steepen after that, bringing lots more power earlier. Will we go for the SBK pipe in the end as this seems to be THE way to go for anyone looking for 1198R/RS like grunt.
2. How do we shorten the throttle travel distance. For the moment the only immediate way it to go for the 800 euro RS throttle that carries expensive connections to be cut off and replaced with the stuff the stock R loom will take. The stock being 85°, the RS throttle travels only 60° and could therefore be too aggressive. Especially with the boomer pipes. Leaving the 85° and controlling the input simply by putting different settings electronically is considered not done as rolling off could become unmanageable. So do we have to mill some internals? Le’ts hope not.
3. Once we get the combo of pipe- its map – throttle sorted, then comes the programming of the throttle response per gear….
Issue 4 : set up.
This bike has been steady as a rock but I did find it willing to shake it’s head under power. The way to go there looks as though it will be to put the settings of the swing arm to – 4 and stiffen the rear springs to wait. There the is the option to steepen the head to 23,5% and move it 5mm forward. This with some specific Corse parts .. something I will refrain from for the moment. She’s more than flickable enough for me.
Once all this is done, then we’ll be able to say the bike will be at it’s very best. So quit some way to go.
I’ll keep you all posted.
Ps : it is estimated that , should the wsbk put the weight limits as they were in the 916/998 era, ti weight could be brought down to 155Kg… hmmm … Now who can make some Magnesium triples and rear swingarm? ….
Ok, now that the major esthetical issues are done with ( apart from some last bits to be bolted on) where do we stand with the development of the bike. So perhaps a roundup of issues is to be made.
Nr 1 issue: as funny as it seems, the throttle is hard for to get fully open. It has to travel at least 15% too far down to fully open. And it is a well-known fact that for control reasons, the engine only starts giving a 100% response to the throttle above 70% opening. Looking at the DDA data from Brands, it shows I never had the throttle open for more than 73%! And therefore the average max rev was about 10K. Ducati being proud that the R will do 12K, that leaves 2K unused. And it shows. I did not outrun any other bikes on straights. This said, I wonder if I’ll be able to handle to whole cavalry when it shows up..
Nr2 issue : the power band between 5 – 10K. Let s be clear, even with some throttle mapping, the EVO pipe leaves quit a hole below 8K. And weighing more 70% than Pedrosa does not do much good to make me fly out of corners. Not only is there a hole, the rush of power between 7 and 11 is very 2 stroke like. The influx of horses is pretty brutal and far from easy to manage. This type of power delivery is the main issue when trying to choose gears for particular corners
Nr 3 issue : the importance of riding gear. Not wanting to ‘overdo’ it, I came to the conclusion that ,as stated in a previous post, I’ll need a new racing suit and especially boots. Why, I found out that, after losing 19kgs and buying the boots ½ a size too tall , I do move but seem to be moving within my gear. I’m only transferring 50% of my body movement in actual movement on the bike. I also found multiple occasions when while accelerating, I skid backwards 6 cm before my suit to grip me. This translated in rough throttle management with some unwarranted surges as a result. Nothing disastrous , but still very much unwanted. It’s not a bad thing to be able to stay over the tank and not slid backwards on a bike that tends to wheelie in 2/3/4 just on the gas. And it feels like you’re hardly in control. I’m also sure that having a suit flapping around does the already tiny bubble and therefore fragile aerodynamics no good anywhere. For the boots : as my foot seems to be moving in the boot rather than making the boot move on a 1on1 relationship, it results in far too many gear change foul-ups as the right pressure is not always guaranteed. There is almost 1 issue every 2 sessions which, on track, is not to be had. So it’s off to the suit maker DAMEN next week. But that is the easy part.
Perhaps the most important 2 hours of the UK days were spent in Winchester, with Steve Moore, the brains and chief behind the Moto Rapido BSB team. Steve had been so kind to invite us to the team to have a close look at the RS and Superstock bikes his team runs. Now, of course, such a visit is always a thing not to be missed, but Moto Rapido and Steve himself have quit a peculiar spot in the realm of Panigale development. With some ultra-interesting aspects that at first peep can be easily missed. Steve actually has been developing the Pani for BSB before Corse started prepping for WSBK. Add to that the fact that BSB does not allow for any electronic aids to assist the rider ( ABS/TCS/LC….) and having to make the wild RS rideable with those amount of power on tap, has given some very important and ultra-rare insights in setting this bike up. To the fore jumped 2 things: When does the power come in, and how to link power delivery through throttle control.
To put the aim in simple terms: let’s find power way earlier and especially smoother and more controllable. The parts and items to do this have shown to be the exhausts and their subsequent engine and fuel mapping, throttle management to feather the power in and EBC to smoothen out the impact of the enormous pistons.
There has been a lot of confusion on what pipes are now available for the Pani. For clarity reasons, it should be considered that 50% of these options are for the R only. There is no guarantee that all can be done on the base engines. There is a good chance, but no guarantee. Why? Because it is now generally admitted that for racing or intense track use, the R engine is the one to go for. Not for its power aspects , just for reliability issues. If you ride it hard, get some titanium internals. iow: get an R.
So what are the possibilities to exhausts.
To all:
Street pipe + map ( = on the bikes when delivered)
Termi slip ons + map ( add on )
Evo line ( full termi system with Ti cans) + map (replacement system – included with R package)
For R only:
Pro manifold ( same TI cans - 16CM + over EVO manifold – through the swing arm) – is in the DP accessories list ( 2K euros extra over Evo) with long wait.
SBK manifold ( same TI cans – 30cm + over EVO manifold – bypassing the swing arm) – Corse access ( 3K 3 parts pipe / 6K euros full system) only and today considered as Unobtainium. When at Rapido, DHL just dropped such pipe with serial nr “002” on it..
Detail : the Titanium version of this pipe is Alstare only for the moment.
A pipe, you can bolt on. A map you can activate but the key to get all this working together is the Superstock ECU. As this ecu lets tuners and racing engineers to bring all the aspects together. It let’s you set all parameters of the bike in different modes as it lets you reprogram the Riding modes from the bottom up. “You” here being an expert of Steve’s calibre.
So what we will have to find out per bike is
1. What will the pro pipe bring us? We already know that the dip will get worse below 6,5K and but that the curve will steepen after that, bringing lots more power earlier. Will we go for the SBK pipe in the end as this seems to be THE way to go for anyone looking for 1198R/RS like grunt.
2. How do we shorten the throttle travel distance. For the moment the only immediate way it to go for the 800 euro RS throttle that carries expensive connections to be cut off and replaced with the stuff the stock R loom will take. The stock being 85°, the RS throttle travels only 60° and could therefore be too aggressive. Especially with the boomer pipes. Leaving the 85° and controlling the input simply by putting different settings electronically is considered not done as rolling off could become unmanageable. So do we have to mill some internals? Le’ts hope not.
3. Once we get the combo of pipe- its map – throttle sorted, then comes the programming of the throttle response per gear….
Issue 4 : set up.
This bike has been steady as a rock but I did find it willing to shake it’s head under power. The way to go there looks as though it will be to put the settings of the swing arm to – 4 and stiffen the rear springs to wait. There the is the option to steepen the head to 23,5% and move it 5mm forward. This with some specific Corse parts .. something I will refrain from for the moment. She’s more than flickable enough for me.
Once all this is done, then we’ll be able to say the bike will be at it’s very best. So quit some way to go.
I’ll keep you all posted.
Ps : it is estimated that , should the wsbk put the weight limits as they were in the 916/998 era, ti weight could be brought down to 155Kg… hmmm … Now who can make some Magnesium triples and rear swingarm? ….
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,044
- Location
- belgium
there seems no easy solution for the throttle issue. So, as it stands, the only solution is an RS throttle that will reduce the 85° turn/twist distance to 60°. this will then have to be dialled in per gear to make it manageable.. we could reduce max output to pe 70% in first, 80% in second and then full in 3/4/5/6. we can then also set how much increase there is per 10° of turn.. interesting may be to keep 30% of power in the last 15° ... we're waiting anxiously to see whether we could get a SBK Pipe and sell the Pro through. this may be the finale combo to get the bike at it's max. The SBK pipe is roumored to get rid of the Pani 'dip' completely reinstalling the 1198RS punch low down.. we'll see..
In the mean time we solved the suit issue by going for a tight Damen race suit and some Daytone EvoIII GP boots i got for a bargain... should have it end of august.
the bike is going on the dyno for a run tomorrow to see what the remapping did and then up to Ohlins for setup... we'll get there in the end!
In the mean time we solved the suit issue by going for a tight Damen race suit and some Daytone EvoIII GP boots i got for a bargain... should have it end of august.
the bike is going on the dyno for a run tomorrow to see what the remapping did and then up to Ohlins for setup... we'll get there in the end!
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,044
- Location
- belgium
the dyno run to benchmark the PRO or SBK line against...
nice soundbite..
Ducati Panigale 1199R Dyno 3 july 192 din HP rear wheel - YouTube
nice soundbite..
Ducati Panigale 1199R Dyno 3 july 192 din HP rear wheel - YouTube
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2012
- Messages
- 573
- Location
- Irvine, CA
Yep, pretty consistent. Mine was 189 HP SAE
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,044
- Location
- belgium
so some season closers...
here some fun with buddies at Zolder...
Ducati 1199R onboard ZOLDER Forza Rossa 5&6 10 2013 - YouTube
here some fun with buddies at Zolder...
Ducati 1199R onboard ZOLDER Forza Rossa 5&6 10 2013 - YouTube
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,044
- Location
- belgium
The winter games are on !
the go ahead has been given for the winter plan.
idea is to get all engine/power/pickup/low down/miff/throttle respons issius behind us bt the start of the season so wa can entirely focus on riderprogress..
as we all know : that is what needs most improvement..
so to settle point 1 we'll install a SBK pipe from Corse. The one that runs right of the swingarm and the only one that seems to cure the dip issue low down in the rev range. the engine will be blueprinted ( balanced crank, smoothing the exitports, fitting the valves) with a slight increase in compression and a throurough mapping effort. A race radiator with a much improved core ( 35MM iso 20mm for the stock) will be installed and the Ilmberger carbon belly pan will be adjusted to let the hot air at the back off the radiator out more easily. SO all the horses that will be available will keep fresh and running... heat kills power..
but to acces those horsies to the fullest , something ultrarare will be added : a converted RS throttle that has a 60° to full tilt action. The stock is 85° ... the conversion is the replacement of the wiring as the RS is meant to jack into the Magnetti Marelli system, not the Mitsubishi ECU. from what i hear , the switch has been done...
can't wait to see it. this should ensure that all power will be used when called for. Something that now happens almost never.. the last 10° of throttletwist never seem to materialize. the throttle will be mapped to the torque curve of the engine . I'm waiting for more info on this one...
The bike will be shipped to the UK next month to the MOTO RAPIDO shop and Steve Moore will spend some much appreciated time on the bike
once this will be off the deck, then we can focus on rider progress.
Looking back at the season, we did a teriific job as putting the bike together and sort of learn to ride on the track in general and on this bike in particular. All this after a 17 year no riding period and not much previous track experience before that.
But we seriously neglected the setup aspect of things and I even feel we paid the price. The slide in SPA probably aggravated the situation, adding to the slide.. It also has my full attention now that I must see that I tend to go to pretty decent times in a couple of sessions. On any new track, but then seem to hit a wall.. Not feeling confident on the setup changes an some behaviour that wasn't there before does not make for early throttle openings and such.
So the focus of next year will be to break through that barrier. And riderskills and setup together should lead to that. And analysis. It's hard to judge throttle and brakign behaviour and setup without the right data. So we opted for AIM package that sill do just that. Aim's EVO 4 datalogger will compliment the DDA from Ducati and add the suspension sensor kit, lean angle, gyro , better GPS tracking. So we'll be able to see it all. And monitor progress"¦ it even comes with an optical time measurer to make sure we get time data..
We found out that if you order a TTX aftermarket , the spring comes in at 100kg.. the stock R one is 90.. which is indicative .. a 100,110 and 120 kg spring is ordered. Apparently Checa ran the stock swingarm with a 140kg spring"¦ should be fun to play around with"¦
Ive been unable to avoid false neutrals all year long and so am not to fond of the current setup. A PRO SHIFT PS3 blipper system was on my mind for a while but it was when chaz davvies commented that took some getting used to having to use the clutch that I pulled the trigger on this one.. it should let me focus on body position and easy en reassure the gearshiftprocedure. Especially as bike stability will have to improve as times will be dropping.. and nothing is so upsetting as misshifts..
Also a heightened and widened seat is under way to change the angle my rather long legs are under to allow me to move more freely and easily
So the plan is to have the bike fully done by early feb. And then to start the countdown for the spanish week mid march at Barcelona and Valencia"¦
Weve given the SL route some serious thought but found little added value over developing this bike?. It would cost another arm and a leg to gain some 6kg.. now, even though I lost 22KG , I m still a big bloke so weigth should not become a fetish.. this said , I'm really interested in the MAG frame/carbon rear combo"¦ but, I plead guilty, more from a bling perspective"¦
I'm happy to have found the good formula for power, responsiveness , suspension and brakes , setup and overall styling. When asked about the EVO , Corse said that it will be the current SBK bike with SSTK engine and electronics"¦ And that is pretty close to what mine will look like when it's done. All this without the ridiculous maintenance schedules of the real race bikes. So I'l be happy to look at and ride my reasonable man's Evo-RS. And it will still be a 001/001..
the go ahead has been given for the winter plan.
idea is to get all engine/power/pickup/low down/miff/throttle respons issius behind us bt the start of the season so wa can entirely focus on riderprogress..
as we all know : that is what needs most improvement..
so to settle point 1 we'll install a SBK pipe from Corse. The one that runs right of the swingarm and the only one that seems to cure the dip issue low down in the rev range. the engine will be blueprinted ( balanced crank, smoothing the exitports, fitting the valves) with a slight increase in compression and a throurough mapping effort. A race radiator with a much improved core ( 35MM iso 20mm for the stock) will be installed and the Ilmberger carbon belly pan will be adjusted to let the hot air at the back off the radiator out more easily. SO all the horses that will be available will keep fresh and running...
heat kills power.. but to acces those horsies to the fullest , something ultrarare will be added : a converted RS throttle that has a 60° to full tilt action. The stock is 85° ... the conversion is the replacement of the wiring as the RS is meant to jack into the Magnetti Marelli system, not the Mitsubishi ECU. from what i hear , the switch has been done...
can't wait to see it. this should ensure that all power will be used when called for. Something that now happens almost never.. the last 10° of throttletwist never seem to materialize. the throttle will be mapped to the torque curve of the engine . I'm waiting for more info on this one...
The bike will be shipped to the UK next month to the MOTO RAPIDO shop and Steve Moore will spend some much appreciated time on the bike
once this will be off the deck, then we can focus on rider progress.
Looking back at the season, we did a teriific job as putting the bike together and sort of learn to ride on the track in general and on this bike in particular. All this after a 17 year no riding period and not much previous track experience before that.
But we seriously neglected the setup aspect of things and I even feel we paid the price. The slide in SPA probably aggravated the situation, adding to the slide.. It also has my full attention now that I must see that I tend to go to pretty decent times in a couple of sessions. On any new track, but then seem to hit a wall.. Not feeling confident on the setup changes an some behaviour that wasn't there before does not make for early throttle openings and such.
So the focus of next year will be to break through that barrier. And riderskills and setup together should lead to that. And analysis. It's hard to judge throttle and brakign behaviour and setup without the right data. So we opted for AIM package that sill do just that. Aim's EVO 4 datalogger will compliment the DDA from Ducati and add the suspension sensor kit, lean angle, gyro , better GPS tracking. So we'll be able to see it all. And monitor progress"¦ it even comes with an optical time measurer to make sure we get time data..
We found out that if you order a TTX aftermarket , the spring comes in at 100kg.. the stock R one is 90.. which is indicative .. a 100,110 and 120 kg spring is ordered. Apparently Checa ran the stock swingarm with a 140kg spring"¦ should be fun to play around with"¦
Ive been unable to avoid false neutrals all year long and so am not to fond of the current setup. A PRO SHIFT PS3 blipper system was on my mind for a while but it was when chaz davvies commented that took some getting used to having to use the clutch that I pulled the trigger on this one.. it should let me focus on body position and easy en reassure the gearshiftprocedure. Especially as bike stability will have to improve as times will be dropping.. and nothing is so upsetting as misshifts..
Also a heightened and widened seat is under way to change the angle my rather long legs are under to allow me to move more freely and easily
So the plan is to have the bike fully done by early feb. And then to start the countdown for the spanish week mid march at Barcelona and Valencia"¦
Weve given the SL route some serious thought but found little added value over developing this bike?. It would cost another arm and a leg to gain some 6kg.. now, even though I lost 22KG , I m still a big bloke so weigth should not become a fetish.. this said , I'm really interested in the MAG frame/carbon rear combo"¦ but, I plead guilty, more from a bling perspective"¦
I'm happy to have found the good formula for power, responsiveness , suspension and brakes , setup and overall styling. When asked about the EVO , Corse said that it will be the current SBK bike with SSTK engine and electronics"¦ And that is pretty close to what mine will look like when it's done. All this without the ridiculous maintenance schedules of the real race bikes. So I'l be happy to look at and ride my reasonable man's Evo-RS. And it will still be a 001/001..
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- SF Bay Area
Very cool Kope. Are you racing next season?
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- Jan 11, 2012
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- The Netherlands
I am curious to see your bike again.
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Is the bike lacking for your ability ? I'm not really understanding what your trying to achieve with this bike .
Is it a track day only bike or you racing .
Is it a track day only bike or you racing .
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- Jan 16, 2013
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Well we just took on the 1 race project i'll probably ever do : the 6hours of SPA, an endurance event. so after the opening weeke in Barcelona and Valencia, focus will be on SPA with 10/8 as main event and then we'll fill the rest of the year with the foreign tracks...
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I re read your post . From what I can gather it's a build a bike exercise other than a go fast project ?
That's cool.
That's cool.
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Well we just took on the 1 race project i'll probably ever do : the 6hours of SPA, an endurance event. so after the opening weeke in Barcelona and Valencia, focus will be on SPA with 10/8 as main event and then we'll fill the rest of the year with the foreign tracks...
Endurance bike . You have picked the wrong weapon .
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- Jan 16, 2013
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- belgium
Hi wilks, good to hear from you
No , of course that bike is not lacking to my ability. But that does nopt mean it cannot be made better.
I'll do one race and that will be it probably.. 95% will be trackdays... but i alwys wanted to build something really special and ride it to the best of my ability. Special to me is and technially outstanding and stunning to look at... and to achieve the best of my ability , i like that to be reached methodologically...
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I understand . I was curious as to what you were not happy with on the bike .
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- australia
I have been having trouble with my rear shock working correctly and having it re valved at the moment .
We have been getting good results with the DU 930 being re valved .
How have you been finding your set up and what size spring you using in the rear ?
We have been getting good results with the DU 930 being re valved .
How have you been finding your set up and what size spring you using in the rear ?
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Well, its a 3 bike - 4 x 30min stints - affair...
so a bit of a hyper hectic trackday... hope to be up to speed by then ... need to shave off 6 seconds on a 2:52 lap...
-------
to the setup : as i said it was a black hole last year with no attention given in structured way... i 'm totally unhappy with some service i got and that is where the foccus will be on... we now know that in general, spring rated are on average 15 to 20 kgs above bodyweight... apparantly this is because the swingarm is pritty stiff and the bolting on the frame takes away even more flex.. this means that all movement goes straight into the shock and its spring. causing quit some wallowing/pumping in the back and weight transfer coming out of corners.. i still run the 90 stock spring wich is 5kg below my riding weight! that is why probably the 110Kg will be the thing to add. and then , with the suspensionsensors, we should be able to see that...
My main complaint is the bike running wide .. to which a too soft rear spring is also said to be a pointer...
the other thing i'm not happy about is pick up below 5K..
if my adult kids ask me WTF i'm doing with that bike, i tell them : "Dad's playing WSBK" ... that sums it all up quit neatly...
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