2013 1199R track bike project

kope999R said:

Well, its a 3 bike - 4 x 30min stints - affair... so a bit of a hyper hectic trackday...

hope to be up to speed by then ... need to shave off 6 seconds on a 2:52 lap...

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to the setup : as i said it was a black hole last year with no attention given in structured way... i 'm totally unhappy with some service i got and that is where the foccus will be on... we now know that in general, spring rated are on average 15 to 20 kgs above bodyweight... apparantly this is because the swingarm is pritty stiff and the bolting on the frame takes away even more flex.. this means that all movement goes straight into the shock and its spring. causing quit some wallowing/pumping in the back and weight transfer coming out of corners.. i still run the 90 stock spring wich is 5kg below my riding weight! that is why probably the 110Kg will be the thing to add. and then , with the suspensionsensors, we should be able to see that...

My main complaint is the bike running wide .. to which a too soft rear spring is also said to be a pointer...


the other thing i'm not happy about is pick up below 5K..

if my adult kids ask me WTF i'm doing with that bike, i tell them : "Dad's playing WSBK" ... that sums it all up quit neatly...

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Kope

I like the honest "Dad's playing WSBK" It must be fun to have the time and money to make a track only bike. Good luck with it all and your endurance race."

kope999R said:

Well, its a 3 bike - 4 x 30min stints - affair... so a bit of a hyper hectic trackday...

hope to be up to speed by then ... need to shave off 6 seconds on a 2:52 lap...

-------

to the setup : as i said it was a black hole last year with no attention given in structured way... i 'm totally unhappy with some service i got and that is where the foccus will be on... we now know that in general, spring rated are on average 15 to 20 kgs above bodyweight... apparantly this is because the swingarm is pritty stiff and the bolting on the frame takes away even more flex.. this means that all movement goes straight into the shock and its spring. causing quit some wallowing/pumping in the back and weight transfer coming out of corners.. i still run the 90 stock spring wich is 5kg below my riding weight! that is why probably the 110Kg will be the thing to add. and then , with the suspensionsensors, we should be able to see that...

My main complaint is the bike running wide .. to which a too soft rear spring is also said to be a pointer...


the other thing i'm not happy about is pick up below 5K..

if my adult kids ask me WTF i'm doing with that bike, i tell them : "Dad's playing WSBK" ... that sums it all up quit neatly...

Click to expand...

From all reports the valving job will fix the pumping issue which I currently have .
Will let you know how it works . Most guys I know are running lighter springs for there weight with the valve job with great results .

wilkson said:

I have been having trouble with my rear shock working correctly and having it re valved at the moment .
We have been getting good results with the DU 930 being re valved .

How have you been finding your set up and what size spring you using in the rear ?

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Not sure what you are running, but we have found that a softer rear spring and stiff front springs are what the World Superstock guys are running. We tried the formula and it is working GREAT!

I am 195lbs and running 1.10s up front and .85 rear. Ohlins 30mil kit up front with the recent updated setup. TTX MKII race rear Ohlins... I can maybe find the height numbers for you to try. The setup we have right this instance is great.

The start of the year, we were .95 rear and 1.00. Front was .975 and 1.00...

Bike was understeering a good bit. Was also needing a ton of preload to steer under load. Now? We are actually running a bit of oversteer and the finishing of a turn is amazing. The newest build spec for the front should provide better feel.

I was getting vague front end feel especially on braking and initial turn in. The new set up for the 30mils are to provide better feel in that regard. Been a fight with the 30mil stuff it seems, but hoping it gets better....

Red Dawn said:

Not sure what you are running, but we have found that a softer rear spring and stiff front springs are what the World Superstock guys are running. We tried the formula and it is working GREAT!

I am 195lbs and running 1.10s up front and .85 rear. Ohlins 30mil kit up front with the recent updated setup. TTX MKII race rear Ohlins... I can maybe find the height numbers for you to try. The setup we have right this instance is great.

The start of the year, we were .95 rear and 1.00. Front was .975 and 1.00...

Bike was understeering a good bit. Was also needing a ton of preload to steer under load. Now? We are actually running a bit of oversteer and the finishing of a turn is amazing. The newest build spec for the front should provide better feel.

I was getting vague front end feel especially on braking and initial turn in. The new set up for the 30mils are to provide better feel in that regard. Been a fight with the 30mil stuff it seems, but hoping it gets better....

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Correct we are doing the same .
Your spring rate sounds similar but was having trouble with using the full stroke of my front forks .
I think my spring rate is good but will add a little more oil .

wilkson said:

Correct we are doing the same .
Your spring rate sounds similar but was having trouble with using the full stroke of my front forks .
I think my spring rate is good but will add a little more oil .

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I'm using it all. What model do you have? The standard will have about 25mm I think off my head of fork still showing as it has the stops that prevent all of the fork use.

Red Dawn said:

I'm using it all. What model do you have? The standard will have about 25mm I think off my head of fork still showing as it has the stops that prevent all of the fork use.

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I have the R so using the Ohlins with a cartridge kit . I had the same kit in my base bike which seemed to work a little better I think it was due to the bigger tubes .

I thought seriously about not sharing this but I'm a racer and I would not mind sharing my data with other racers. I have worked with Attack Performance to analyze the chassis with MotoSpec Chassis Software to figure out spring rate, swingarm position (R), sprockets, front and rear ride height, etc. This info WILL give you fantastic handling on a Base, S or R model but I can't give it away for free. If anyone, who is serious, is interested in this information I can provide details chassis data including anti-squat as affected by gearing, swingarm length and angle. No mess, no fuss. Just data that will make the bike handle like a dream.

Kope you seem to have more money than the rest of us can you pay RRX for his info .
I'm skint now after crashing my bike again.

wilkson said:

I'm skint now after crashing my bike again.

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Again???

through Its a Corse product.. but it's the swap from MMarelli to Misubishi ECU and mapping that takes the skill.. as it s RS , it's not cheap either...

roadracerx said:

I thought seriously about not sharing this but I'm a racer and I would not mind sharing my data with other racers. I have worked with Attack Performance to analyze the chassis with MotoSpec Chassis Software to figure out spring rate, swingarm position (R), sprockets, front and rear ride height, etc. This info WILL give you fantastic handling on a Base, S or R model but I can't give it away for free. If anyone, who is serious, is interested in this information I can provide details chassis data including anti-squat as affected by gearing, swingarm length and angle. No mess, no fuss. Just data that will make the bike handle like a dream.

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I m digging into this this winter. And i haven't forgotten our conversation

wilkson said:

Kope you seem to have more money than the rest of us can you pay RRX for his info .
I'm skint now after crashing my bike again.

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Oh dear, Wilks, FFS... a buddy of mine is learning like that as well... jump over the limit, crash, get up , repair your bike and try again.... i prefer the more steady approach ...

good luck to ya !

RS throttle conversion

And a very first - probably worldwide :

the RS throttle MAgnetti Marelli to Mitsubishi conversion. So very likely/maybe the very first short 60° degree twist on a non RS pani .. thanks Steve !

and there is more to it than plug and play...

kope999R said:

Oh dear, Wilks, FFS... a buddy of mine is learning like that as well... jump over the limit, crash, get up , repair your bike and try again.... i prefer the more steady approach ...

good luck to ya !

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Only way to find the limits Kope . Just a low side no big deal .

got confirmation from Moto Rapido. this is what the SBK RS13 pipe will look like.. pritty groovy...

kope999R said:

got confirmation from Moto Rapido. this is what the SBK RS13 pipe will look like.. pritty groovy...

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That's huge!!!

roadracerx said:

I thought seriously about not sharing this but I'm a racer and I would not mind sharing my data with other racers. I have worked with Attack Performance to analyze the chassis with MotoSpec Chassis Software to figure out spring rate, swingarm position (R), sprockets, front and rear ride height, etc. This info WILL give you fantastic handling on a Base, S or R model but I can't give it away for free. If anyone, who is serious, is interested in this information I can provide details chassis data including anti-squat as affected by gearing, swingarm length and angle. No mess, no fuss. Just data that will make the bike handle like a dream.

Click to expand...

Can you potentially give us the differences between all three? That's the issue. The forks on the standard are different and their height is going to change what an S model guy has or the rear with the pivot on an R will make things different for an S or Standard guy, etc.

While I think it may be worth paying for, what amount are you talking? The issue is also how you measured ride height in the back. Using the Corse tool or something else? We have to take the Corse tool and set the bike and then measure with our tool that is sold to a majority of the guys around here to share info correctly. XXmm on our tool can be different to another guy with a different tool.

Also, maybe some info as to your ability as if you are say, Turpine, then it has value to everyone as we can strive to be at that level. If you are an Intermediate rider at track days or a Novice racer, it tends to be tough to pay for as it can be totally different to a faster rider...

I would be very interested and be willing to pay for shared info. But it has to be worth it and something we can translate into a different bike for example.

Please shoot me info and I will pass it to my tuner and see his thoughts. Meaning, what you are using and not details. Obviously if you are wanting paid, I wouldn't be asking for too much, but just enough to evaluate...

Or what if Wilk and I or a third go in equal parts? None of us race each other or would cross over and we all could use that info if it is good...

Kope... You have a ton of money man. A lot of top shelf stuff that I think if you had a last name of Checa or Davies might make sense. I have to say I am jealous as I just cannot justify the expenses. But, I rather enjoy the progress you are showing and sharing with us. That throttle was something I was wanting since last year and knew it was pricey.

The feel on the throttle is just a little hollow or dead feeling to a degree. A cable pull would remedy that and exactly what the WSBK have been doing for years.

Red,

There is no justification. Nothing to do with the head... but i'm still off a load of cash compared to queing to the mall in a Ferrari... ..

I ve lived a full life, but this the personal project where i'm in charge and pay the bills... is it irrational, sure is... but i defined it myself, put the empahsis where i wanted and saw it built before my eyes... i regret being too clumsy to build anything myself and respect hugely those who have the skills... and this year, i'll learn to ride it better ... and that is the best i can do... and that is what makes me happy just looking at it... and why i prefer it over an SL ... even though that is one hell of a bike...