2013 1199R track bike project

wilkson said:

I'm having a 25% sale on my information today . Anyone interested PM me .

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I will join you in the information costs. Until I hear back on the RoadracerX's credentials, it isn't looking good. I asked how much and what details would be given, but nada in return.

What he is saying is generic and basic 1010 road race stuff. The fact is that several of the top riders like loose. I can think of some sort of loon that just won a world championship on some sort of pile RCV thingy...

Point is this. Rider's style dictates how they set a bike up. Yes, there are several schools of thought regarding how and such, but think of it this way... If you set your bike up like the fastest club guy at your track, who is to say that it works for you unless you ride exactly like him?

Yes, smooth is fast. Several riders are in that class. But to say that it is the fastest? Not always. And you can slide a bike into a turn without squaring off... I can think of several riders that everyone here would recognize that are smooth in under slide and do not always square off turns. Squaring off is something that happens a lot with big bikes due to faster entry speeds...

Anyways... I won't under sell Wilky on the Holiday sale for info, but charging someone for basic info is silly.

Here's MY school of thought... The better we all get at setting these bikes up collectively, the better we all become as riders. If I go to a race and there are three other 1199s lined up and we all have been sharing info, my thought is that we all will HOPEFULLY be out front against the other makes and we all will be similar in speed which allows for seriously awesome competition.

Out here, we have such a fast guy and we share info and he shares with everyone he talks to. Nothing wrong at all in doing this. In fact, when you share, you tend to LEARN more as well...

Chassis setup is key on ANY bike. The 1199 is no different. We have some World Superstock info that we have been looking at and using and while every season, it changes, it is simply this - A BASE TO START FROM.

And that is exactly what ANY information should be taken as. A BASE.

A starting point is what we look for. We tailor from there. No two riders will have the exact same setup. But they start somewhere and work on that and develop the bike to THEM and advance. Sometimes, the base setting causes them to go backwards and they have a tougher time finding the solution.

But to tell people they are going to pay for information is crazy talk.

Oh, and RRX has great info in terms of what he has been posting and thankful he is helping out. But the info he has for chassis setup and geo, etc. shouldn't have to be paid for. Anyone wanting what we are doing from the WSS stuff is welcome to ask and I can give you general ideas where to possibly start or direct you to a guy here in the States that is really great with that information and who is racing an 1199 also.

Unless Shane Turpin (who I highly doubt would charge you for the information) here in the States, I don't see why we wouldn't all share this info and help each other out... Making these bikes faster and out in the front is the goal...

Ok, this will be my only response to the previous comments...

The value in freedom is choice, to that end we all have choices we can and do make. Some folks here think there is value in what I am willing to provide; I am committed to their satisfaction.

The providence of this chassis setup data is genuine, some of which sourced directly from Ducati Corse. I have no doubt others have information that is free but in my experience you get what you pay for. If this information were useful I would not have paid for it, end of story. There is no foundation for questioning my credentials or making disparaging commentary and I will not engage in hearsay.

Contact me if you would like help. I will provide exhaustive details, as previously stated for a small fee, and for very little money spent I can get your bike working well for you. If you have something negative to say, take the high road and keep it to yourself. Time is a commodity. I charge for my time and I have spent quite a bit of money to understand, from a mathematical and experience-based approach, what changes are needed to get the most from this bike.

I have been racing for years, I have also instructed, completed many advanced rider training courses and I am also an engineer with a methodical approach. I thoroughly understand suspension setup and chassis analysis. To that end I worked with a former AMA team with CRT experience to approach the setup through analysis of data, not trial and error. I have tested the bike and raced it with success.

Yes, it is true that all riders are different but trail, swingarm angle, geometry settings are not. My settings are a great place to start; I don't claim to provide an answer to end to all issues but as previously stated, I am committed to those who value my time.

If anyone would like to contact the team I worked with I am sure they too will be happy to charge you for these findings, but their price is about 8x more than what I am charging.

I hope this quells any concerns as I like coming here and contributing information. I am helpful and have given good advice on several posts. I don't want to see that change.

@Red Dawn, I don't see a PM from you so....can't answer something I have not been asked.

There are SSTK setup settings available from CORSE for all the tracks the WSSTK goes to.

I think there certainly is value in having a good base setup. Its where it all starts, isn't it.
So i gather, if RRX can help people that have no continued acces to setup development achive this for an amount they are willing to spend, then that is a honorable proposition.

and what people are willing to spent remains personal, as the SL discussion amply shows.

This said, personally - this is the project thread - I will opt for a more continuous approach to the setup development for this bike. As i also want to understand why things work or don't. and as this is a highly trust sensitive issue ( how good is the guy doing this) , to me the choice of the man/team that will do this is more important than the base setup. Once he is chosen, then that base setup will be done in an afternoon. and then starts the development and analyses work. - hence the investement in the extended datalogging capacity .

I hope to have him with me the 4 days we will spend on Barcalona and Valencia in March. that should be a fabulous occasion to get an awful lot of work done.

I also feel it serves no purpose to come up with something from one source and then continue with another source.

@kope999r, agreed. +1

bike is being completed after a major overhaul at the Moto Rapido Racing Workshop in the uk..

Race radiator - full blueprint- superfinishing - RS inletcams - RS clutchplate pack - RS13 SBK V2.0 manifold - short throttle - 3d Mapping ... the works...

used the opportunity to install the carbon version of the plastic ECU holders/sidepanels..

kope999R said:

used the opportunity to install the carbon version of the plastic ECU holders/sidepanels..

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Hey Kope

Can you say something about the Febur radiator?

Thanks

kope999R said:

used the opportunity to install the carbon version of the plastic ECU holders/sidepanels..

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Thanks for the pics Kope. Can't see much of the carbon electronic holders though. Mostly the radiators!

Unreal Kope! You're the man.

@Scorpio66, what would you like to know about the Febur lower radiator/oil cooler?

EvoL said:

Unreal Kope! You're the man.

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no i'm not..

topolino said:

Thanks for the pics Kope. Can't see much of the carbon electronic holders though. Mostly the radiators!

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i know but the bike is still in the UK ... it will show it s full value once she's complete again..

Scorpio66 said:

Hey Kope

Can you say something about the Febur radiator?

Thanks

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I have one but decided not to mount it then .. Alstare measured oil pressure and found a not to be disgarded drop in pressure. the oil pump being to light to maintain pressure over the longer distance. Now , from what i hear these concerns do not seem to be valid but still... then i bought a race radiator in Italy ass well that took some mending but still did not match wel enough to fit the SBK manifold... so finally Steve mounted the one in the pics that sits wonderfully... and i love that SAMCO blue..

kope999R said:

no i'm not..



i know but the bike is still in the UK ... it will show it s full value once she's complete again..



I have one but decided not to mount it then .. Alstare measured oil pressure and found a not to be disgarded drop in pressure. the oil pump being to light to maintain pressure over the longer distance. Now , from what i hear these concerns do not seem to be valid but still... then i bought a race radiator in Italy ass well that took some mending but still did not match wel enough to fit the SBK manifold... so finally Steve mounted the one in the pics that sits wonderfully... and i love that SAMCO blue..

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So is the WSBK team not running the radiator/oil cooler? I'm having one built and I'm concerned.

Can you tell us where you got your race radiator, so I could pick one up if I wanted.

Thanks.

all SBK teams run the RS full faced radiator.. thats the one that also has core next to the cylhead ... the one i got is not the full faced one , is designed by Moto Rapido in the UK where you can get them from..

and here it is : DYNO CHART

here it is : the dyno!


the two lines are both Pani R with PRO manifold, SSTK ecu and timing done.. so pritty well progressed...

the big red one is the bike after he got the full treatment. the major improvement is between 5250 and 8000 where is where the pani is notorious for loosing ground over the 1198R...

16 bhp more at 6500 and up to 20% more torque should cure that problem. as you'll see, the top flattens off at 11K at 189.. this was done to preserve engine life and not create the need nor wish to rev it within an inch of it s life.. if wanted we would have been able to get to 193/4 in these circumstances.. the dyno is known to be conservative and is used for comparison purposes...

i'm very happy with het result as the diff will get me out of corners better by quit a margin... being heavy at 95 kg , that helps...

the short RS throttle will liven it upu even more and the radiator will keep those horsies cooler so longer available.. should be quit a combo...

sett up is next and AIM stuff to go on after that ..

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189BHP. That's might impressive Kope!

topolino said:

189BHP. That's might impressive Kope!

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as you can see from the graph, the line is flattened.. we could have let it run on to 194 we think but decided against it... now it no longer makes sense to pull over 11K ... and if we do , it won't hurt that much...

building this is one thing ,having to build it twice a year is something different altogether...

What is the Max torque on 6k, 7k, 8k, 9k rpm?

Robin

76 pound foot at 6400 .. 98 max at 9 think