2018 Ducati V4 Its real, well at least the motor

I think we all have that to some extent. I have seen many examples in a years time where guys have changed out over 50% of the bike. Me and cars are a different story. Through my business, I lease (my daily drivers). These cars do not screw with my mind. Because I do not own them, I do not screw with them. Its actually kind of nice. I think i have looked under the hood just to see what a modern motor looks like. Looks like a flat plastic table. First oil change is 10k miles. If I did own them then I would have to f&%* with them because I cant leave .... alone. The bikes are toys and we are going to screw with them. Personally, I would like to get the most for a buck that I can. Im sure there are many here who have way more money tied up in the initial purchase of the bike and aftermarket parts than the bike could be sold for. The "buffet bike" could offset that quite a bit. My favorite quick eatery is Chipotle. Why? because I can get exactly what I want and how much of it I want and I don't pay for what someone else thinks I want. Aprilia is doing somewhat of a version of the "buffet bike" but I really think there is an opportunity for a some entity to fill the gap in the sub 30-40K range. I would love to be able to get a V4 from Ducati and just buy the pieces I would end up swapping anyhow and at a decent price. This is the # 1 reason the Kitplane market has soared in popularity. You can build or have built much more of an airplane for a lot less money that Cessna or Piper are charging. And your right on the custom Harley type bikes. That market is very robust. Just an idea.

Please have the Ducati V4 coming into the market. It wouldn't post a surprise since the "we know who" has moved from Aprilia to Ducati Corse. He had been instrumental on the RSV4 development ...like since 2009....

Still reaping the raw twin desmo of the 1199,keeping it for a while, the first of its kind in twin.

If Ducati is truly coming with a V4, in a sportbike model, I can't wait. I absolutely love my current 2 Ducati's. 2015 Ducati 1299S and 2016 Ducati Monster R.

endodoc said:

With Ducati, who knows. They have a whole marketing dept dedicated to getting the maximum millage out verbiage that makes you feel special and a part of that "exclusive" club. Im not brand happy. I use whatever the mission calls for. The only reason I built the first 1299 is that I never owned a twin and decided to give it a shot. I would never pay 30K for a 1299. I would gladly spend 80K to build one however. If the new V4 is a good platform and I can get a motor, I will build the rest. If its a really good motor and i have to buy the bike and part it out to get the motor, I will. If the motor isn't significantly advanced to warrant the work, I will pass all together.

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endodoc what if I may ask are your highlights on your resume'? I'm just interested and curious.
Reading this let me get my head around the comment you actually built a 1299..
Does this mean you machined al the engine parts ? You designed the webs that add the strength and all the .... that goes into engine design.

If so sir I have huge respect for you, myself a big petrol head and not loyal to a brand but after spending a few days in the UK and meeting the engineers as in many of them that conceived the LP570 Mclaren it's hard to believe that one man could do all the work needed to design and build a motor such as the one in the 1299 all on his own
Add the engineering complexities needed to calculate stretch and torque (yep some bolts are not torqued in all applications) they are stretched and at that point a materials engineer along with a mechanical engineer normally pool their skills. And you can do all this ? in my book makes you very talented.

Hi Captain

Great post and not to worry, I get the sarcasm and I afford you that opportunity because well, I guess your some sort of leader of your ship being a captain and all. My highlights on my resume, well as they would pertain to this subject, my background and education is Aerospace Engineering with a minor in molecular chemistry. I flew tactical aircraft with VF-51 in the Navy and research aircraft for Hughes Aerospace out of Pt Mugu ca. One of my employment stints before the navy was as a materials engineer with Penske Indy Car and Granatelli Racing working with Swift Engineering on CF chassis technology. I currently own a medical research facility that specializes in metabolomics focused on metabolic fueling. Additionally I own a R&D facility called Disruptive Technologies. We have built and patented a completely revolutionary way to make food using sonic energy. Additionally we have now built a prototype machine that will replace Forged Composites with a very fast, low cost alternative. Our first product off this machine will be very low cost CMC rotors. We are now making CF parts that require no vacuum system or autoclave. The process time to make a part is under 5 seconds. So to answer your question, no I did not design and built a 1299 motor from a foundry perspective. I did build one using a lot of parts that I did make and I also designed and machined many of the pieces on the bike. Im sure if you can figure out (or maybe have the neighbors kid show you)how to use the search feature, you can find my post on the build.You want to talk about metallurgical engineering, aerospace fasteners, torque specs, grain flow in forging, grainless forging of aerospace materials, bring it on Captain. Just steer your little dingy this way and we can go at it. Obviously, (.... hopefully, but who knows) you understood the context of what I wrote. For some reason, you took offense to it. Now to answer the rest of your question, do I think I could build an engine from scratch including the design, engineering and machine work?. Yes, I do and it would not be that difficult at all. Autodesk Fusion 360, 3D printing and 4 axis CNC. Take a stroll through Youtube and look at all the small shops now doing just that. Now maybe you should go check on your row boat, I hear a mutiny is in the works and there is a plank with your name on it.

endo I could spend a whole day asking you stupid questions. lol

Macattack said:

endo I could spend a whole day asking you stupid questions. lol

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Only a day?

endodoc said:

Hi Captain

Great post and not to worry, I get the sarcasm and I afford you that opportunity because well, I guess your some sort of leader of your ship being a captain and all. My highlights on my resume, well as they would pertain to this subject, my background and education is Aerospace Engineering with a minor in molecular chemistry. I flew tactical aircraft with VF-51 in the Navy and research aircraft for Hughes Aerospace out of Pt Mugu ca. One of my employment stints before the navy was as a materials engineer with Penske Indy Car and Granatelli Racing working with Swift Engineering on CF chassis technology. I currently own a medical research facility that specializes in metabolomics focused on metabolic fueling. Additionally I own a R&D facility called Disruptive Technologies. We have built and patented a completely revolutionary way to make food using sonic energy. Additionally we have now built a prototype machine that will replace Forged Composites with a very fast, low cost alternative. Our first product off this machine will be very low cost CMC rotors. We are now making CF parts that require no vacuum system or autoclave. The process time to make a part is under 5 seconds. So to answer your question, no I did not design and built a 1299 motor from a foundry perspective. I did build one using a lot of parts that I did make and I also designed and machined many of the pieces on the bike. Im sure if you can figure out (or maybe have the neighbors kid show you)how to use the search feature, you can find my post on the build.You want to talk about metallurgical engineering, aerospace fasteners, torque specs, grain flow in forging, grainless forging of aerospace materials, bring it on Captain. Just steer your little dingy this way and we can go at it. Obviously, (.... hopefully, but who knows) you understood the context of what I wrote. For some reason, you took offense to it. Now to answer the rest of your question, do I think I could build an engine from scratch including the design, engineering and machine work?. Yes, I do and it would not be that difficult at all. Autodesk Fusion 360, 3D printing and 4 axis CNC. Take a stroll through Youtube and look at all the small shops now doing just that. Now maybe you should go check on your row boat, I hear a mutiny is in the works and there is a plank with your name on it.

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Does this mean we can start buying CMC rotors off of you instead of waiting around for Braketech to come out with theirs?!

CMC rotors are relatively easy to produce especially with the tech we have today. Go look at the Brembo video on how they make rotors. The material costs are nominal. The cost is in the time and additional processes that it takes for a finished product. Our mfg process is completely different. It is much faster and more accurate. We can produce an unfinished rotor in under a minute. We're working on the rest of the steps now. The real issue is DOT certificate and I doubt we will ever go that far. Someone who takes over or licenses the tech may elect to but it won't be me. I hope to have a few sets to try in the next couple of months but there are no plans to make and sell for obvious liability reasons.

endodoc said:

CMC rotors are relatively easy to produce especially with the tech we have today. Go look at the Brembo video on how they make rotors. The material costs are nominal. The cost is in the time and additional processes that it takes for a finished product. Our mfg process is completely different. It is much faster and more accurate. We can produce an unfinished rotor in under a minute. We're working on the rest of the steps now. The real issue is DOT certificate and I doubt we will ever go that far. Someone who takes over or licenses the tech may elect to but it won't be me. I hope to have a few sets to try in the next couple of months but there are no plans to make and sell for obvious liability reasons.

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Sounds like an interesting project.

I'm stamping out test pieces of both chopped and woven CF pieces now. Once I lay the material in the die, the part is pressed and cured in 3-5 seconds depending on layers and fabric. Compare that to many hours for vacuum bagging, autoclave and labor. The part is actually stronger than the conventional method as well.

endodoc said:

I'm stamping out test pieces of both chopped and woven CF pieces now. Once I lay the material in the die, the part is pressed and cured in 3-5 seconds depending on layers and fabric. Compare that to many hours for vacuum bagging, autoclave and labor. The part is actually stronger than the conventional method as well.

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Can you post some pics of these as you go along for us curious folk in a new thread? Would love to watch the progress and the final outcome.

Sure thing.

I keep seeing this thread pushed to the top and every time I think "Sweet there is more news about the V4!" But no just bickering...

Here is some news. Its going to have 4 cylinders. Probably round (well it is Ducati so maybe not exactly round). It will make noise and require some sort of combustable material to run. Thats all I have.

Twistedracer said:

Can you post some pics of these as you go along for us curious folk in a new thread? Would love to watch the progress and the final outcome.

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Endo, sent me some pics of his Honda CBR. He definitely takes care of his bikes.

If I go overseas again and cant take my bikes with me...I'll ask to leave it at his house and pay him to work on it.

I would trust him more than the dealers. I recently got my bike back and it is missing 5 fairing washers and one had double plastic washers on one bolt....If its not warranty work...... dealers...except few that I know I can trust.

youngR said:

Endo, sent me some pics of his Honda CBR. He definitely takes care of his bikes.

If I go overseas again and cant take my bikes with me...I'll ask to leave it at his house and pay him to work on it.

I would trust him more than the dealers. I recently got my bike back and it is missing 5 fairing washers and one had double plastic washers on one bolt....If its not warranty work...... dealers...except few that I know I can trust.

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I know how you feel. There used to be a dealer which the mechanic could never install the bodywork right on my 998.

I have it on good authority that a V4 Pani R announcement will be coming within 3 weeks.

NW1299 said:

I have it on good authority that a V4 Pani R announcement will be coming within 3 weeks.

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Let me caveat this.

It sounds fairly concrete that the final edition Panigale will be announced at Laguna WSBK.

There is a chance the V4 is held until EICMA, but the intent from Ducati is to race the V4 in WSBK 2018, so timeline is a factor.

Highly likely we will get at least a leak, if not a full announcement, during the Laguna WSBK round, and I may be there so hopefully they've got the new bike(s) there for viewing.


Don't kill the messenger.

NW1299 said:

I have it on good authority that a V4 Pani R announcement will be coming within 3 weeks.

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Good authority??? It was a great authority as I hear no drinks were involved