2023 V4R info to keep in mind

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roadracerx said:
There isn't anything to upgrade....the additional 3 hp is from the new ecu. no other real changes and the RC looks WAY better IMHO.
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To me the biggest miss on the Kramer bikes is that the KTM is SO MUCH more polished looking. Kramer has always had an exhaust had looks like it came from eBay, and graphically pretty bad. Kramer should be leveraging hte KTM bike as much as possible, sure there are proprietary elements they won't let go of - wings... But Kramer should be asking for a little thanks from KTM by letting KISKA do the final design // graphics.

Its a fail if the new Kramer does not look as premium as the KTM
 
KarlKani said:
To me the biggest miss on the Kramer bikes is that the KTM is SO MUCH more polished looking. Kramer has always had an exhaust had looks like it came from eBay, and graphically pretty bad. Kramer should be leveraging hte KTM bike as much as possible, sure there are proprietary elements they won't let go of - wings... But Kramer should be asking for a little thanks from KTM by letting KISKA do the final design // graphics.

Its a fail if the new Kramer does not look as premium as the KTM
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You've seen the previous models, right? Plain black and plain white... 🤣

I guess they've made some effort with this one but the graphics look like they gave the job to someone's school friend. Not particularly high on my list of priorities for a bike like this, though, and it can easily be changed if it's important to the buyer.


I'd guess that KTM have put something in place to stop Kramer selling the exact same bike that they made for them...
 
@spooky there aren't any negatives per se....my point was simply that track based middleweight bikes with grippy tires don't really need IMU-based strategies. Rear lift mitigation is not possible with non-ABS equipped bikes (pitch control X axis), I could see slide control potentially (Y axis) if the Kramer has it, but I get on the gas pretty quickly on the R6 and RC and it doesn't really slide beyond a few degrees. Wheelie control (X axis) is another thing aided by an IMU and the RC already has wheelie control but doesn't wheelie very much likely due to the wings. The RC has traction control (Y axis) with a tip sensor and modes for dry and or rain so these strategies exist. I'm just not sure there is an actual improvement here with this Kramer version, I think they just want to sell a 40k track-only bike and say its better than the RC. Just my .02
 
roadracerx said:
@spooky there aren't any negatives per se....my point was simply that track based middleweight bikes with grippy tires don't really need IMU-based strategies. Rear lift mitigation is not possible with non-ABS equipped bikes (pitch control X axis), I could see slide control potentially (Y axis) if the Kramer has it, but I get on the gas pretty quickly on the R6 and RC and it doesn't really slide beyond a few degrees. Wheelie control (X axis) is another thing aided by an IMU and the RC already has wheelie control but doesn't wheelie very much likely due to the wings. The RC has traction control (Y axis) with a tip sensor and modes for dry and or rain so these strategies exist. I'm just not sure there is an actual improvement here with this Kramer version, I think they just want to sell a 40k track-only bike and say its better than the RC. Just my .02
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It’s unfortunate that both of these companies limit the number of these bikes. I’m sure they could sell 2x as many as they offer. This exclusivity artificially bumps up the price.
 
SuperDomestique said:
It’s unfortunate that both of these companies limit the number of these bikes. I’m sure they could sell 2x as many as they offer. This exclusivity artificially bumps up the price.
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Yea, the price IS high. It IS worth it to me but it should be a 30k bike and a regular production model IMHO. For anyone interested, there is a brand new RC for sale here in the OC for MSRP.
 
SuperDomestique said:
It’s unfortunate that both of these companies limit the number of these bikes. I’m sure they could sell 2x as many as they offer. This exclusivity artificially bumps up the price.
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It would be awesome if it wasn't limited production but they don't really seem to sell for overs, which helps. I have a feeling that KTM will drop less than Kramer. I could be wrong of course (and it wouldn't be the first time by a long way).

I'd pay the asking price but I'd happily pay10K Euros less with no number on it. :rolleyes:
 
roadracerx said:
@spooky there aren't any negatives per se....my point was simply that track based middleweight bikes with grippy tires don't really need IMU-based strategies. Rear lift mitigation is not possible with non-ABS equipped bikes (pitch control X axis), I could see slide control potentially (Y axis) if the Kramer has it, but I get on the gas pretty quickly on the R6 and RC and it doesn't really slide beyond a few degrees. Wheelie control (X axis) is another thing aided by an IMU and the RC already has wheelie control but doesn't wheelie very much likely due to the wings. The RC has traction control (Y axis) with a tip sensor and modes for dry and or rain so these strategies exist. I'm just not sure there is an actual improvement here with this Kramer version, I think they just want to sell a 40k track-only bike and say its better than the RC. Just my .02
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I'd imagine it has to be different to the KTM - a spitting image without the KTM badge probably wouldn't go down very well with KTM.

The new one is also user-upgradeable, so maybe they have something up their sleeves (or maybe it's never going to be upgraded in any meaningful way but is a nice feature to sell).
 
@spooky I think the upgrades were through the Palmeres device for the ecu, not hard parts. The RC is a simple, effective tool. Put the correct springs on it for your weight, set the sag and the damping per the manual and the tires at the pressures the manual states and ride, that's it. It's a true joy to ride and needs absolutely nothing. The provided mapping is perfect. Like you said, it's probably marketing. Kramer is known for constantly updating the bikes with new parts each year.....dash, brakes, suspension, exhaust...
 
I hear the SP2 is a great bike! As a rider coach I tell folks that the lap time comes from track knowledge, good fundamentals and confidence. Confidence comes from positive reinforcement through seat time. The Ducati Panigale V4 platform is AMAZING but you need to be in shape to ride it well the full 15-30 minutes you get each hour at a track day and that gets SIGNIFICANTLY harder as the air temp and humidity levels rise. It takes significantly less energy to ride the RC 8C or really any middleweight bike SO you get to see that same corner more times and that builds your confidence and track knowledge. It's a self-fulfilling kind of approach.
 
roadracerx said:
I hear the SP2 is a great bike! As a rider coach I tell folks that the lap time comes from track knowledge, good fundamentals and confidence. Confidence comes from positive reinforcement through seat time. The Ducati Panigale V4 platform is AMAZING but you need to be in shape to ride it well the full 15-30 minutes you get each hour at a track day and that gets SIGNIFICANTLY harder as the air temp and humidity levels rise. It takes significantly less energy to ride the RC 8C or really any middleweight bike SO you get to see that same corner more times and that builds your confidence and track knowledge. It's a self-fulfilling kind of approach.
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I’ve only done two track events so far after a very long time away from riding. The bike gives a lot of confidence on the brakes and through corners because it’s capable of so much more than it’s being asked to do, but it does go a bit mental with the throttle wide open. :eek:

I love the SP2 but I suspect the 8C or GP2 would be a better option. I’d still love to try a V4R though. Where’s that lottery win when you need it…🤣
 
roadracerx said:
agreed. I see no relation between oil and coolant levels. There have been coolant issues since 2018. Some bikes have the issue and some don't. My 2020 Streetfighter V4 did and it was replaced under warranty when I first noticed a bit of coolant pooling between the heads and when I would park the bike putting it on the kickstand the pooled coolant would spill out. My bike had maybe 300 miles on it when I noticed it and the dealership fixed it. I had another customer that continued to ride the bike and the coolant got low and this warped his heads on the motor. THANKFULLY he had the extended warranty so that $12,000 job was fixed for free on his 2019 V4R!
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It’s just my hypothesis that oil overfilling might cause excessive crankcase pressure and thus an oil/coolant leak.

No empirical evidence though, just a guess.
 
Alkhater said:
It’s just my hypothesis that oil overfilling might cause excessive crankcase pressure and thus an oil/coolant leak.

No empirical evidence though, just a guess.
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Possibly but it would need to be really overfull. But if you filled it all the way to the waterpump probably. The stock evap system is trying to pull a vacuum. I can't see why people defeat this. It may also be purely heat related particularly when it leaks to the outside. Might have been surface finish related on the pump shaft.
 

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