2023 V4R info to keep in mind

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roadracerx said:
WAY lighter than the 400 and almost triple the power! :)
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I used to love the old RGV250 and the GSRX400, which was my favourite of the 400s for some reason (and I rode all of them).

Just had a look at the claimed specs for the GSZR400 - 160kg and 59hp... well it felt plenty fast on the twisty roads! :oops:🤣 I was riding a new FZR600R at the time, which was a fun bike.

I'm really very, very tempted by the Kramer - very light, plenty of power for the weight, updateable electronics, top-quality components... Probably more fun than my SP2 on track and more accessible and I don't really want to completely strip my SP2 down to use as a track bike, although I could remove the lights at both ends as I'm not really using it on the road (it's handy to be able to pop the licence plate holder on and ride it to the dealer for a service as I don't have a van and have to rent one each time I go to the track).

Or maybe there's someone with the newest RC-8C that bitterly regrets the purchase, hasn't used it and would love to swap it for a barely ridden, one careful owner SP2... 🤣
 
FWIW, I rode w at Laguna a guy that had an RC 8C and RS660 Extrema and he said RC 8C was the better out of the 2. It’s like a modern Gixxer 750. Right in that sweet spot of enough power (but not too much) and great handling.

@roadracerx Would Kramer upgrade your 8C to the GP2 RR spec (or is it even necessary? )?
 
Then you go looking online and find a Suter MotoGP bike rebuilt for track use, with a detuned (215bhp) BMW engine at 142kg… That might be a bit too much bike… 🤣
 
SuperDomestique said:
FWIW, I rode w at Laguna a guy that had an RC 8C and RS660 Extrema and he said RC 8C was the better out of the 2. It’s like a modern Gixxer 750. Right in that sweet spot of enough power (but not too much) and great handling.

@roadracerx Would Kramer upgrade your 8C to the GP2 RR spec (or is it even necessary? )?
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There isn't anything to upgrade....the additional 3 hp is from the new ecu. no other real changes and the RC looks WAY better IMHO.
 
roadracerx said:
There isn't anything to upgrade....the additional 3 hp is from the new ecu. no other real changes and the RC looks WAY better IMHO.
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I think the electronics are different and also user-upgradeable on the GP2 RR. I thought it has some different internals as well?

Cosmetically the RC probably has the edge.
 
@spooky I think intake cams and there is now an IMU but it's unnecessary. The R6 has no IMU and still arguably the best middleweight bike. I doubt there will be any real difference in lap times. The 1st version of the RC (orange bike) didn't have TC or wheelie control. Version 2 (black bike) does have these rider aids but I run everything in the lowest setting. I learned to ride before electronics.
 
roadracerx said:
There isn't anything to upgrade....the additional 3 hp is from the new ecu. no other real changes and the RC looks WAY better IMHO.
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To me the biggest miss on the Kramer bikes is that the KTM is SO MUCH more polished looking. Kramer has always had an exhaust had looks like it came from eBay, and graphically pretty bad. Kramer should be leveraging hte KTM bike as much as possible, sure there are proprietary elements they won't let go of - wings... But Kramer should be asking for a little thanks from KTM by letting KISKA do the final design // graphics.

Its a fail if the new Kramer does not look as premium as the KTM
 
KarlKani said:
To me the biggest miss on the Kramer bikes is that the KTM is SO MUCH more polished looking. Kramer has always had an exhaust had looks like it came from eBay, and graphically pretty bad. Kramer should be leveraging hte KTM bike as much as possible, sure there are proprietary elements they won't let go of - wings... But Kramer should be asking for a little thanks from KTM by letting KISKA do the final design // graphics.

Its a fail if the new Kramer does not look as premium as the KTM
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You've seen the previous models, right? Plain black and plain white... 🤣

I guess they've made some effort with this one but the graphics look like they gave the job to someone's school friend. Not particularly high on my list of priorities for a bike like this, though, and it can easily be changed if it's important to the buyer.


I'd guess that KTM have put something in place to stop Kramer selling the exact same bike that they made for them...
 
@spooky there aren't any negatives per se....my point was simply that track based middleweight bikes with grippy tires don't really need IMU-based strategies. Rear lift mitigation is not possible with non-ABS equipped bikes (pitch control X axis), I could see slide control potentially (Y axis) if the Kramer has it, but I get on the gas pretty quickly on the R6 and RC and it doesn't really slide beyond a few degrees. Wheelie control (X axis) is another thing aided by an IMU and the RC already has wheelie control but doesn't wheelie very much likely due to the wings. The RC has traction control (Y axis) with a tip sensor and modes for dry and or rain so these strategies exist. I'm just not sure there is an actual improvement here with this Kramer version, I think they just want to sell a 40k track-only bike and say its better than the RC. Just my .02
 
roadracerx said:
@spooky there aren't any negatives per se....my point was simply that track based middleweight bikes with grippy tires don't really need IMU-based strategies. Rear lift mitigation is not possible with non-ABS equipped bikes (pitch control X axis), I could see slide control potentially (Y axis) if the Kramer has it, but I get on the gas pretty quickly on the R6 and RC and it doesn't really slide beyond a few degrees. Wheelie control (X axis) is another thing aided by an IMU and the RC already has wheelie control but doesn't wheelie very much likely due to the wings. The RC has traction control (Y axis) with a tip sensor and modes for dry and or rain so these strategies exist. I'm just not sure there is an actual improvement here with this Kramer version, I think they just want to sell a 40k track-only bike and say its better than the RC. Just my .02
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It’s unfortunate that both of these companies limit the number of these bikes. I’m sure they could sell 2x as many as they offer. This exclusivity artificially bumps up the price.
 
SuperDomestique said:
It’s unfortunate that both of these companies limit the number of these bikes. I’m sure they could sell 2x as many as they offer. This exclusivity artificially bumps up the price.
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Yea, the price IS high. It IS worth it to me but it should be a 30k bike and a regular production model IMHO. For anyone interested, there is a brand new RC for sale here in the OC for MSRP.
 
SuperDomestique said:
It’s unfortunate that both of these companies limit the number of these bikes. I’m sure they could sell 2x as many as they offer. This exclusivity artificially bumps up the price.
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It would be awesome if it wasn't limited production but they don't really seem to sell for overs, which helps. I have a feeling that KTM will drop less than Kramer. I could be wrong of course (and it wouldn't be the first time by a long way).

I'd pay the asking price but I'd happily pay10K Euros less with no number on it. :rolleyes:
 

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