2025, totally new Panigale(?)

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spooky said:
Nobody in any sport (or in business for that matter) would think if you are winning you stop trying to improve… that’s how you stop winning.
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Dssa is not an improvement it's been on the market for decades.
Ducati could have switched 20 years ago but they didn't.

Your argument is silly and not appropriate here
 
SuperDomestique said:
So you’re currently dominating a championship with a SSSA and want to switch to DSSA on a whim because you think it’ll help. Who said stop improving? Iterate on what works for you. Switching to a DSSA poses lots of risk.

Conversely, by this logic DSSA bikes not winning should switch to SSSA.
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How many bikes do they have on the grid? They have far more data to draw on than any other manufacturer. You are talking as if the SSSA is the reason they are winning. 🫣 If a SSSA was a technically superior solution then they’d be using it on their GP bikes. I’d suggest the primary reason for using it is styling and it being part of their brand identity going back to the 916, as the last time they tried to change it (with the 999) it was not a popular move.

Who said anything about doing something on a whim?
 
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panibadboy said:
Dssa is not an improvement it's been on the market for decades.
Ducati could have switched 20 years ago but they didn't.

Your argument is silly and not appropriate here
Click to expand...

They tried to switch years ago and the market didn’t like it. I seem to recall that the 999 did quite well competitively though? GP bikes don’t use it and the Desmosedici didn’t. As mentioned above, the SSSA won’t be the reason they are winning. If they were to let GP tech trickle down then that might well lead to a DSSA. 🤷‍♂️ If a SSSA was better then presumably the GP bikes would use it.

I also did not say they should switch, so you are arguing against something I didn’t say…
 
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The elephant in the room is that the model, while arguably the best overall liter bike on the market, is getting stale in a way. Ducati is not Enzo Ferrari who made road cars to fund racing. Ducati funds racing to sell road bikes.

And if I am not alone then I might be part of the reason for this move. My bike is a 2020, I didn’t buy a 21 through 24 bike because while they are modest iterations improvements, there has not been enough of an iteration or change to entice me away from my highly modified bike and into a newer bike in a number of years.

This iteration, or rather the R version that’s soon to follow will get my money. Perhaps wrongly so, because we simply don’t know if it will be an improvement or not.

Overall I’d rather see them come out with that elusive seamless gearbox.

Having said all that, the KTM I’m on for this season is changing my view of bikes completely. The overall simplicity of the bike is in striking contrast to the Ducati. As is as just how stunningly well it works with very few modifications or adjustments at track.
 
spooky said:
How many bikes do they have on the grid? They have far more data to draw on than any other manufacturer. You are talking as if the SSSA is the reason they are winning. 🫣 If a SSSA was a technically superior solution then they’d be using it on their GP bikes. I’d suggest the primary reason for using it is styling and it being part of their brand identity going back to the 916, as the last time they tried to change it (with the 999) it was not a popular move.

Who said anything about doing something on a whim?
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I didn’t say the SSSA is THE reason why they’re winning. You’re applying that logic.

So why would Ducati pursue a technically inferior solution after the 999? Why did Ducati revert back to SSSA for the F08 1098R?

Each has its pros and cons. One solution isn't better than another. Different applications call for different solutions.

SSSA is simpler when it comes to flex properties. You have only 1 plane to deal with. With a DSSA you have to factor the deflection of 2 planes and how they interact.

But so far no one has seen any proof of a DSSA. No prototypes or spy shots
 
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Steven31371 said:
Having said all that, the KTM I’m on for this season is changing my view of bikes completely. The overall simplicity of the bike is in striking contrast to the Ducati. As is as just how stunningly well it works with very few modifications or adjustments at track.
Click to expand...

Just think if Ducati did something similar. Hoping they do a Supermono tribute
 
Steven I'm beginning to think you never had a belt drive superbike. So much simpler. And way lighter (40-50 lbs) They should have never taken the readily accessible height adjustment off the bikes. The eccentric becomes totally manageable, adjust the chain, check the ride height all done 5 minutes. I just went to adjustable dogbones due to the ease of use relative to dealing with screwing with putting the bike on jackstands to adjust the shock eye. My 916 has an eccentric in the head. 24.5/23.5. Takes about 5 minutes to flip it. Costs a little more. These are expensive motorcycles they should come with total adjustability.
 
SuperDomestique said:
I didn’t say the SSSA is THE reason why they’re winning. You’re applying that logic.

So why would Ducati pursue a technically inferior solution after the 999? Why did Ducati revert back to SSSA for the F08 1098R?

Each has its pros and cons. One solution isn't better than another. Different applications call for different solutions.

SSSA is simpler when it comes to flex properties. You have only 1 plane to deal with. With a DSSA you have to factor the deflection of 2 planes and how they interact.

But so far no one has seen any proof of a DSSA. No prototypes or spy shots
Click to expand...

I’m no engineer but I would think managing the flex properties of a DSSA would be dossier than managing the flex properties of a SSSA. There are twisting stresses to deal with an an SSSA.

Either way, Ducati seems to have sorted both out given their racing success lol
 
Ultimately the DSSA is more rigid at a given weight. Engineering the SSSA for torsional effects etc no biggy. They are just heavier and a more complicated thing to make. The DSSA will be cheaper to manufacture and the eccentrics themselves are expensive which will disappear. So lighter swingarm more front weight, less unsprung weight at the rear etc. Sorta blows though. The endurance racers will mourn the demise of the SSSA.
 
panibadboy said:
I bet DSSA introduction on SBK is just a cost cutting exercise.
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I sorta of agree. It will be way cheaper to manufacture. The cost of the pricey eccentric goes away, cheaper bearings, lighter axle and that SSSA is a complicated and heavy piece. But there is a weight and weight distribution advantage. For what they'll save in costs they could go to a carbon fiber swingarm. And they've been doing carbon chassis component research for years. DSSA in carbon fiber would help stop the WSBK's guys having to watch the I4's turn underneath them by moving the CG forward.
 
baggerman said:
I sorta of agree. It will be way cheaper to manufacture. The cost of the pricey eccentric goes away, cheaper bearings, lighter axle and that SSSA is a complicated and heavy piece. But there is a weight and weight distribution advantage. For what they'll save in costs they could go to a carbon fiber swingarm. And they've been doing carbon chassis component research for years. DSSA in carbon fiber would help stop the WSBK's guys having to watch the I4's turn underneath them by moving the CG forward.
Click to expand...

So, it's cheaper and provides a performance benefit. It would be nice if it was somewhat trick and GP-derived.

I wonder if they would be brave enough to make the change, because they know for certain that there will be loads of people bemoaning the loss of a SSSA.
 

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