2025, totally new Panigale(?)

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spooky said:
That has no relevance to what I said.

They are winning with both types of swingarms, but in GP they can choose what to use, and they don’t choose the SSSA. Why do you think that is?
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There’s nothing stopping Ducati from already using a DSSA in WSBK. If one were to read the rules, the only stipulation is that the type of swingarm needs to remain the same as the homologated bike. The homologated bike is the V4R which could’ve gone with DSSA in 19 or 23. Why didn’t Ducati go to a DSSA in 19 when they weren’t winning with the SSSA previously? Especially since they’ve had such success with DSSA in GP…
 
SuperDomestique said:
There’s nothing stopping Ducati from already using a DSSA in WSBK. If one were to read the rules, the only stipulation is that the type of swingarm needs to remain the same as the homologated bike. The homologated bike is the V4R which could’ve gone with DSSA in 19 or 23. Why didn’t Ducati go to a DSSA in 19 when they weren’t winning with the SSSA previously? Especially since they’ve had such success with DSSA in GP…
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Surely if they have to use the same type of swingarm then the rules do prevent them from changing, unless they change the homologated bike… I’m not sure what point you were making.

They have had success with the V4… You seem to be attributing their success to the swingarm… It’s the V4 platform and electronics.
 
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spooky said:
Surely if they have to use the same type of swingarm then the rules do prevent them from changing, unless they change the homologated bike… I’m not sure what point you were making.

They have had success with the V4… You seem to be attributing their success to the swingarm… It’s the V4 platform and electronics.
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My point was if you’re assuming that DSSA is technically superior, why haven’t they already switched? They easily had the chance on the last 2 revisions especially as Craig points out they weren’t winning w the xx99R. Looks shouldn’t play a major role on a race specific bike. It’s all about performance. And I say it should be easy because R’s are a separate model from the road-oriented base/S.
 
spooky said:
You seem to be attributing their success to the swingarm… It’s the V4 platform and electronics.
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I didn’t say this. Always misconstruing words…

The swingarm is just a part of the machine. The V4R is winning bc it has the right rider combined with the right bike with the right team. Ducati stuck w the SSSA most likely for packaging reasons and financial. SSSA might not be the best way of doing a swingarm but in the grand scheme of things, it’s the optimal solution.
 
SuperDomestique said:
I didn’t say this. Always misconstruing words…

The swingarm is just a part of the machine. The V4R is winning bc it has the right rider combined with the right bike with the right team. Ducati stuck w the SSSA most likely for packaging reasons and financial. SSSA might not be the best way of doing a swingarm but in the grand scheme of things, it’s the optimal solution.
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If it was the optimal solution they’d use it in MotoGP, right? Why don’t they use it in MotoGP?

They are using it on road bikes, that get homologated for WSBK, because a Ducati has a SSSA, from the 916 to the present time with the exception of a short and unpopular change with the 999. I’ve said this multiple times. A Ducati has a SSSA… That doesn’t mean it’s the optimal solution and if it was then they’d be using it in MotoGP, where they don’t have to base the bike on anything but instead are free to make decisions that are optimal for performance.
 
SuperDomestique said:
My point was if you’re assuming that DSSA is technically superior, why haven’t they already switched?
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They are using the DSSA in MotoGP, therefore it’s technically superior. Again, they’ve stuck to the SSSA because of a design consideration and because they tried to switch away from it previously and the market did not take kindly to it. Repetition…
 
spooky said:
If it was the optimal solution they’d use it in MotoGP, right? Why don’t they use it in MotoGP?

They are using it on road bikes, that get homologated for WSBK, because a Ducati has a SSSA, from the 916 to the present time with the exception of a short and unpopular change with the 999. I’ve said this multiple times. A Ducati has a SSSA… That doesn’t mean it’s the optimal solution and if it was then they’d be using it in MotoGP, where they don’t have to base the bike on anything but instead are free to make decisions that are optimal for performance.
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First WSBK and GP are 2 different series bound by different rules. For the uninformed, WSBK is based on homolgated production bikes. GP bikes are full on prototypes. A homologated WSBK bike has cost constraints. Having 2 different swingarms for a production bike is expensive in many ways (R&D, manufacturing, logistics, etc). Therefore, go with the thing you’re familiar with and that you’ve already committed investment in. It’s why you don’t see manufacturers switch engine layouts
 
SuperDomestique said:
it should be easy because R’s are a separate model from the road-oriented base/S.
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Now that’s actually a half sensible statement. Imagine if they sold a V4R but with proper trickle-down GP tech. There’s nothing to stop them doing that, other than wanting to connect the Panigales from base to R. I’d love to see an R that was differentiated by more than just the engine, but that would probably be the next Desmo, limited edition for collectors only.
 
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DSSA will move the CG forward. Gearing changes no longer changes the ride height so set-up is easier and it's cheaper to make. Ride height adjustment is actually only a problem on these since they took the rocker adjustment off. That's why I wonder if the R's will have a carbon fiber SA.
 
SuperDomestique said:
First WSBK and GP are 2 different series bound by different rules. For the uninformed, WSBK is based on homolgated production bikes. GP bikes are full on prototypes. A homologated WSBK bike has cost constraints. Having 2 different swingarms for a production bike is expensive in many ways (R&D, manufacturing, logistics, etc). Therefore, go with the thing you’re familiar with and that you’ve already committed investment in. It’s why you don’t see manufacturers switch engine layouts
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You are missing the point, which is that you seem to be arguing that the SSSA is chosen for performance considerations and yet in GP they only focus on performance and they do not choose the SSSA.
 
baggerman said:
DSSA will move the CG forward. Gearing changes no longer changes the ride height so set-up is easier and it's cheaper to make. Ride height adjustment is actually only a problem on these since they took the rocker adjustment off. That's why I wonder if the R's will have a carbon fiber SA.
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DSSA makes perfect sense for the R as far as I am concerned. The marketing guys wouldn’t like it though as the SSSA is a differentiator.

Would they be allowed to use a carbon swingarm, given that they can’t use it for wheels?
 
spooky said:
They are using the DSSA in MotoGP, therefore it’s technically superior. Again, they’ve stuck to the SSSA because of a design consideration and because they tried to switch away from it previously and the market did not take kindly to it. Repetition…
Click to expand...

It’s not technically superior when the bean counters get involved and the costs associated with the change don’t make sense.
 
spooky said:
DSSA makes perfect sense for the R as far as I am concerned. The marketing guys wouldn’t like it though as the SSSA is a differentiator.

Would they be allowed to use a carbon swingarm, given that they can’t use it for wheels?
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Forged magnesium would work here too if the WSBK guys are whiney. The factory racebikes had magnesium SA's.
 

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