2025, totally new Panigale(?)

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SuperDomestique said:
I didn’t say the SSSA is THE reason why they’re winning. You’re applying that logic.

So why would Ducati pursue a technically inferior solution after the 999? Why did Ducati revert back to SSSA for the F08 1098R?

Each has its pros and cons. One solution isn't better than another. Different applications call for different solutions.

SSSA is simpler when it comes to flex properties. You have only 1 plane to deal with. With a DSSA you have to factor the deflection of 2 planes and how they interact.

But so far no one has seen any proof of a DSSA. No prototypes or spy shots
Click to expand...

I’m no engineer but I would think managing the flex properties of a DSSA would be dossier than managing the flex properties of a SSSA. There are twisting stresses to deal with an an SSSA.

Either way, Ducati seems to have sorted both out given their racing success lol
 
Ultimately the DSSA is more rigid at a given weight. Engineering the SSSA for torsional effects etc no biggy. They are just heavier and a more complicated thing to make. The DSSA will be cheaper to manufacture and the eccentrics themselves are expensive which will disappear. So lighter swingarm more front weight, less unsprung weight at the rear etc. Sorta blows though. The endurance racers will mourn the demise of the SSSA.
 
Unless they trickle that motoGP-style swingarm down. That would be rather cool.

The swingarm on the Desmo always looked quite trick.
 
panibadboy said:
I bet DSSA introduction on SBK is just a cost cutting exercise.
Click to expand...

I sorta of agree. It will be way cheaper to manufacture. The cost of the pricey eccentric goes away, cheaper bearings, lighter axle and that SSSA is a complicated and heavy piece. But there is a weight and weight distribution advantage. For what they'll save in costs they could go to a carbon fiber swingarm. And they've been doing carbon chassis component research for years. DSSA in carbon fiber would help stop the WSBK's guys having to watch the I4's turn underneath them by moving the CG forward.
 
baggerman said:
I sorta of agree. It will be way cheaper to manufacture. The cost of the pricey eccentric goes away, cheaper bearings, lighter axle and that SSSA is a complicated and heavy piece. But there is a weight and weight distribution advantage. For what they'll save in costs they could go to a carbon fiber swingarm. And they've been doing carbon chassis component research for years. DSSA in carbon fiber would help stop the WSBK's guys having to watch the I4's turn underneath them by moving the CG forward.
Click to expand...

So, it's cheaper and provides a performance benefit. It would be nice if it was somewhat trick and GP-derived.

I wonder if they would be brave enough to make the change, because they know for certain that there will be loads of people bemoaning the loss of a SSSA.
 
Guys lemme ask, what's easier and requires less setup
gearing change on a DSSA?
gearing change on SSSA with etc hub?

would it be crazy to infer that MAYBE you could then use data outside of the OEM to inform performance and setup??
Pierobon will make the swingarm for Ducati Corse WSBK whether it's SSSA or DSSA - do we think that Massimo will all of a sudden drop the price for Ducati on this piece of kit?? No he won't
 
I see no evidence a sssa is less expensive than dssa; in fact, there is evidence the opposite is true:

Alpha Racing dssa $10k

Alpha Racing Superbike swingarm BMW S1000RR 2019-

HHR Performance presents the Alpha Racing Superbike swingarm BMW S1000RR 2019- 3317B000A00 and other parts you need available through hhrperformance.com, Sandpoint, ID
hhrperformance.com hhrperformance.com


Suter dssa $10k

suterproducts.com

Swingarm

We created the superbike swingarm to inspire confidence and boost performance. More confidence, more feel, more fun, faster, and safer! It is the swingarm of choice for the following teams and manufacturers: BMW Motorrad WSBK-Team (World SBK) Althea MIE Racing Team (World SBK) Tyco BMW (British...
suterproducts.com suterproducts.com


Pierobon sssa $5k

www.desmo-racing.com

SWINGARM RACING +30mm WSBK PIEROBON DUCATI PANIGALE 1199 - 1299

SWINGARM RACING +30mm WSBK PIEROBON DUCATI PANIGALE 1199 - 1299
www.desmo-racing.com www.desmo-racing.com
 
craig bush said:
I see no evidence a sssa is less expensive than dssa; in fact, there is evidence the opposite is true:

Alpha Racing dssa $10k

Alpha Racing Superbike swingarm BMW S1000RR 2019-

HHR Performance presents the Alpha Racing Superbike swingarm BMW S1000RR 2019- 3317B000A00 and other parts you need available through hhrperformance.com, Sandpoint, ID
hhrperformance.com hhrperformance.com


Suter dssa $10k

suterproducts.com

Swingarm

We created the superbike swingarm to inspire confidence and boost performance. More confidence, more feel, more fun, faster, and safer! It is the swingarm of choice for the following teams and manufacturers: BMW Motorrad WSBK-Team (World SBK) Althea MIE Racing Team (World SBK) Tyco BMW (British...
suterproducts.com suterproducts.com


Pierobon sssa $5k

www.desmo-racing.com

SWINGARM RACING +30mm WSBK PIEROBON DUCATI PANIGALE 1199 - 1299

SWINGARM RACING +30mm WSBK PIEROBON DUCATI PANIGALE 1199 - 1299
www.desmo-racing.com www.desmo-racing.com
Click to expand...

I guess not all swingarms are made equal. 🤣

I wonder what they pay for the MotoGP one. 🫣

That's not to say they couldn't do it cheaply for the road bikes of course.

That's assuming it happens - I've not noticed anywhere other than that article saying that it's a possibility? Maybe it's clickbait as they know the Ducatisti will lose their minds if the SSSA goes...
 
craig bush said:
I see no evidence a sssa is less expensive than dssa; in fact, there is evidence the opposite is true:

Alpha Racing dssa $10k

Alpha Racing Superbike swingarm BMW S1000RR 2019-

HHR Performance presents the Alpha Racing Superbike swingarm BMW S1000RR 2019- 3317B000A00 and other parts you need available through hhrperformance.com, Sandpoint, ID
hhrperformance.com hhrperformance.com


Suter dssa $10k

suterproducts.com

Swingarm

We created the superbike swingarm to inspire confidence and boost performance. More confidence, more feel, more fun, faster, and safer! It is the swingarm of choice for the following teams and manufacturers: BMW Motorrad WSBK-Team (World SBK) Althea MIE Racing Team (World SBK) Tyco BMW (British...
suterproducts.com suterproducts.com


Pierobon sssa $5k

www.desmo-racing.com

SWINGARM RACING +30mm WSBK PIEROBON DUCATI PANIGALE 1199 - 1299

SWINGARM RACING +30mm WSBK PIEROBON DUCATI PANIGALE 1199 - 1299
www.desmo-racing.com www.desmo-racing.com
Click to expand...

Suter/Alpha is entirely machined from billet so lots of money to material, design, and manufacturing.

Road bike swingarms are cast/stamped with minimal machining which is much cheaper.

This is totally click bait. Suckers be suckered.
 
DSSA can be way lighter. No expensive forged axle with massive bearings needed to spread the load. Axle becomes a hollow tube like the front. Because the swingarm forces are now on the outside of the wheel the ability to resist the moment in the plane of the axle can be achieved with less material. Simply lighter in the end. The V4 center of mass is further back than on the I4's. The change will help mid corner speed. I'm glad Tamburini is gone (the SSSA was his along with the first massively rigid triples). The 916 remains the pinnacle of Ducati engineering with respect to ease of maintenance, adjustability, and sheer beauty.
 
baggerman said:
DSSA can be way lighter. No expensive forged axle with massive bearings needed to spread the load. Axle becomes a hollow tube like the front. Because the swingarm forces are now on the outside of the wheel the ability to resist the moment in the plane of the axle can be achieved with less material. Simply lighter in the end. The V4 center of mass is further back than on the I4's. The change will help mid corner speed. I'm glad Tamburini is gone (the SSSA was his along with the first massively rigid triples). The 916 remains the pinnacle of Ducati engineering with respect to ease of maintenance, adjustability, and sheer beauty.
Click to expand...

SSSA can be helpful with packaging.

I did this render back for the 22 using the V4 front end and V21L swingarm. Exhaust routing will be tough with DSSA. DSSA is much easier w I4 because there’s no rear headers

IMG_0796.png
 
KarlKani said:
Guys lemme ask, what's easier and requires less setup
gearing change on a DSSA?
gearing change on SSSA with etc hub?

would it be crazy to infer that MAYBE you could then use data outside of the OEM to inform performance and setup??
Pierobon will make the swingarm for Ducati Corse WSBK whether it's SSSA or DSSA - do we think that Massimo will all of a sudden drop the price for Ducati on this piece of kit?? No he won't
Click to expand...

All your points are valid and this is not the question in play here.

Ducati made V4R in 2018 and made it SSSA.

They won bunch of championships with it.

They made V2 and new V4R version.

They won everything possible with those two.
 

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