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Good LORD!! That thing looks tasty.. What a fantastic job you did on this build... So what's the displacement then ;-)
jarelj
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Thanks! It's slightly "north" of 899, I think I'll call it xx99!
I rode it up and down the street in front of our shop today just to make sure the electronics are working correctly before I loaded in the trailer to head to the track for the weekend. I think the speed limit on our road is 35 mph, so I guess I was going 4 TIMES the speed limit.... Shhhhh............ probably should be in jail right now.....
The Magnetti-Marelli electronics kit is THE BOMB! I can't wait to get this out on the track! It has programmable engine braking, quick-shift, downshift-blipper, and fuel mapping all by gear and rpm. My friend Mick from Bike Sport Developments in the UK is here this weekend to help me get it all dialed in on the track.
Funny story of the day: I needed to set my sag on the suspension today after it was all assembled, and grabbed my trusty "Sag Tape" to take the measurement, and Mick said "what are you doing that for, just turn on the bike and toggle the dash over to the fork and shock travel measurements and use that to set the preload!" For fuckssake you don't need to measure your sag, just look at it on the dash! This whole thing is several ticks above my skill level, there should be a national-champion level rider on this bike.
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So I was correct when I guessed 999 a few months back lol or is it a 1099???? It looks sick J.
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Glad to see it all worked out! Definitely a beauty!
jarelj
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Maiden track weekend now complete on the new bike! And it was a COMPLETE washout........ rained the entire weekend!
Started Saturday morning with just light sprinkles, so I headed out for a couple short sessions, but riding on a wet track with slicks on doesn't give you much confidence or ability to assess what the bike is doing handling-wise. What I WAS able to do was just do a good shakedown of all the systems on the bike to make sure everything was working correctly (quick-shifter, downshift blipper, engine brake control, wheelie control, traction control) and was able to get some data from the suspension travel readings. Also verified that nothing fell off, melted, leaked, etc. I spent pretty much the entire weekend in the pits with the engineer who was here to train me on the Magnetti-Marelli software. We were supposed to be building a tire map for the Bridgestone V02 slicks I'm running, but I couldn't get past 38 degrees of lean on a wet track so the data didn't prove very valuable, we'll have to try it again next time a week from today at our MotoMonday track day.I was planning to have some fun out there with my "899" passing some RSV4's on the straight, but never got a chance, so that didn't pan out either. Now the cat's out of the bag and most people know that my "899" actually has an 1199R engine in it!
My idea for this bike was to combine lots of power with the shorter wheelbase and chassis of the 899 which I liked so much last year, to make it handle better at our tighter tracks and have the "best of both worlds". Even in the rain, I can tell it's very fast and the tuning in the Marelli system seemed spot on. I'll have to do a dyno run on it at some point just to see what it's making for power, but definitely a LOT more than it did last year with the 899 engine in it. The wheelie control is going to come in really handy on this bike, with the shorter wheelbase it's going to be very wheelie-happy. The Magnetti-Marelli superbike kit is pretty awesome, it can do so much that it's hard to narrow in on specific things you want to do with it. I completely replaced the entire stock wiring harness, and the Marelli ECU control everything from engine tuning to data logging, and there is an accelerometer in the tail plus a GPS module. It has potentiometers on the forks and shock to measure suspension travel, and then that data can be analyzed in relation to any other data collected. For example, we were able to look at the fork travel in relation to braking G-forces, and determine that the front is currently oversprung for me, so I need to drop down one spring rate. You can analyze all your lap data and see exactly what your bike is doing at any given point on the track, which is pretty cool. If you want to get complicated with it, you can even set up strategies for all of the systems (WC, EBC, Mapping, Shifting, etc.) to tune them turn-by-turn on the track like a "REAL" superbike team would do. I don't plan to do that. I have a good base setting in the bike for now, and once I get to ride it in the dry and push it harder, then I'll have an idea of what I want to change with it. It will be a lot of fun to play around with this year!
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jarelj
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Had a couple dry track days on the new bike, things are starting to come together. The electronics are all working great, suspension/geometry I'm still working on. Heading back to the track tomorrow and will try some new settings out. The front end with the Mupo superbike forks is really close, just needs a little more dive under braking, so I took the oil level down 10mm and dropped 1/2 rate on the springs down to .975kg. I think that will put me right where I need to be, then I can fine tune it with compression damping. The rear end is the problem area at this point. Running the shorter 899 swingarm with a 200hp engine is something new, and getting it dialed in has proven difficult. I started stiff and high on the back end and figured I'd soften it up as needed, but overall it proved to be just way too stiff and the tire struggles for grip. So now I'm taking the swingarm pivot down to the -4mm position and brought the ride height down 5mm and will try to get it set up really soft and then start stiffening it up based upon how much squat I'm getting. It's really nice to be able to see how much squat is occurring by using the data collected from the potentiometer on the rear shock, usually it's just a shot in the dark. Once I get the back end dialed and can get to full throttle on the corner exits, I should be right where I need to be for lap times, then I'll do a full writeup on how all of the electronics work. It's pretty amazing, but I don't want to say HOW amazing until I have the lap times to back it up! Ha ha!
Starting to get the hang of the data analysis now with the Magnetti-Marelli electronics system. There's a TON of information available, and frankly it's overwhelming at first. After countless hours poring through my data, comparing it to other test rider data that I got, and consulting with the "expert" I have a good base to start from. The software allows you to create your own "views" of the data so you can arrange it in a way that makes sense to you. Here's my personal "view" that I'm working form now. It gives me a good picture of what the bike is doing at any point on the track.
Starting to get the hang of the data analysis now with the Magnetti-Marelli electronics system. There's a TON of information available, and frankly it's overwhelming at first. After countless hours poring through my data, comparing it to other test rider data that I got, and consulting with the "expert" I have a good base to start from. The software allows you to create your own "views" of the data so you can arrange it in a way that makes sense to you. Here's my personal "view" that I'm working form now. It gives me a good picture of what the bike is doing at any point on the track.
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Very Nice!
jarelj
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For those who are data geeks like me, here's how to interpret the chart:
Top white and red curves are the front and rear wheel speed, red is rear, white is front, and you can see how the curves diverge during acceleration and braking. Then on top of those curves I have the traction control and wheelie control interventions shown, the yellow lines dropping down from the top are the wheelie control ignition advance retard interventions kicking in. The white lines dropping down from the top are the traction control ignition advance retard interventions, and then there is a green line coming up from the bottom of that area showing when the traction control ignition cuts kicked in (just one spot on that lap).
Moving down to the next block, the white and green graphs are the engine RPM (green) and the accelerometer g-force readings (white line).
The yellow "stair step" graph is the gear. Never got out of 4th gear on that lap.
The next section shows throttle position (purple) and brake pressure (white), which is the RIDER area where I can see what I was doing on the bike. Notice how there's only 1 spot on the track where I touched 100% throttle and it was only for a split second! The rest of the track I'm only at a fraction of the throttle due to limited rear grip. This is the problem I'm trying to solve with chassis/suspension setup. Even at this limited throttle, this lap was a 1:41 which is not that slow on this track (Motorsports Park Hastings). Once I can use more of the throttle this bike is going to be a rocket!
Below that we have a Yellow and a Green graph, the yellow is fork travel and the green is shock travel. So that's your picture of what the attitude of the bike is at any point (nose high, tail high, etc.) as well as the frequency of how fast the suspension is moving up and down. This is the real valuable part for chassis and suspension setup, because you don't have to guess how much fork dive, shock squat, etc. you're getting, you can see it right there. On this chart you can see how the fork never dives below 90mm, which means I'm leaving 30mm of the 120mm total travel available on the table, hence the reason I'm softening up the forks now.
The dark blue graph below that is the rear wheel slip. You can see lots of rear wheel slip here, basically any time I get on the throttle and it gets worse the harder I twist it as the bike is being stood up.
Which brings up the last graph, light blue, which is the lean angle of the bike. Using this to compare with the dark blue wheel slip graph, along with the purple throttle position graph above, you can see where I start to get harder on the throttle how much wheel spin it's inducing. Combine that with the green shock travel graph, and you get a good picture of what the back end is doing. So the overall conclusion I draw from it is that when I get on the throttle coming out of turn and start to stand the bike up, the rear shock is not compressing (squatting) enough to get force onto the rear tire to produce grip, it's allowing the rear tire to skate across the ground and it's skips over the surface rather than digging in and driving the bike forward. So that means the swingarm angle is probably too steep and the chain pull is producing too much anti-squat, causing the rear to rise too much during acceleration. So now I'm lowering the swingarm pivot and the ride height and try to get it to the point where it's squatting more and see if that gives me more grip, which I'll be able to see form the wheel slip graph!
Pretty cool, huh!
Top white and red curves are the front and rear wheel speed, red is rear, white is front, and you can see how the curves diverge during acceleration and braking. Then on top of those curves I have the traction control and wheelie control interventions shown, the yellow lines dropping down from the top are the wheelie control ignition advance retard interventions kicking in. The white lines dropping down from the top are the traction control ignition advance retard interventions, and then there is a green line coming up from the bottom of that area showing when the traction control ignition cuts kicked in (just one spot on that lap).
Moving down to the next block, the white and green graphs are the engine RPM (green) and the accelerometer g-force readings (white line).
The yellow "stair step" graph is the gear. Never got out of 4th gear on that lap.
The next section shows throttle position (purple) and brake pressure (white), which is the RIDER area where I can see what I was doing on the bike. Notice how there's only 1 spot on the track where I touched 100% throttle and it was only for a split second! The rest of the track I'm only at a fraction of the throttle due to limited rear grip. This is the problem I'm trying to solve with chassis/suspension setup. Even at this limited throttle, this lap was a 1:41 which is not that slow on this track (Motorsports Park Hastings). Once I can use more of the throttle this bike is going to be a rocket!
Below that we have a Yellow and a Green graph, the yellow is fork travel and the green is shock travel. So that's your picture of what the attitude of the bike is at any point (nose high, tail high, etc.) as well as the frequency of how fast the suspension is moving up and down. This is the real valuable part for chassis and suspension setup, because you don't have to guess how much fork dive, shock squat, etc. you're getting, you can see it right there. On this chart you can see how the fork never dives below 90mm, which means I'm leaving 30mm of the 120mm total travel available on the table, hence the reason I'm softening up the forks now.
The dark blue graph below that is the rear wheel slip. You can see lots of rear wheel slip here, basically any time I get on the throttle and it gets worse the harder I twist it as the bike is being stood up.
Which brings up the last graph, light blue, which is the lean angle of the bike. Using this to compare with the dark blue wheel slip graph, along with the purple throttle position graph above, you can see where I start to get harder on the throttle how much wheel spin it's inducing. Combine that with the green shock travel graph, and you get a good picture of what the back end is doing. So the overall conclusion I draw from it is that when I get on the throttle coming out of turn and start to stand the bike up, the rear shock is not compressing (squatting) enough to get force onto the rear tire to produce grip, it's allowing the rear tire to skate across the ground and it's skips over the surface rather than digging in and driving the bike forward. So that means the swingarm angle is probably too steep and the chain pull is producing too much anti-squat, causing the rear to rise too much during acceleration. So now I'm lowering the swingarm pivot and the ride height and try to get it to the point where it's squatting more and see if that gives me more grip, which I'll be able to see form the wheel slip graph!
Pretty cool, huh!
Now that is really cool.
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No. That's not cool. That's baller!!☺
What a bad ass machine. Definitely one of the top trick bikes on the forum. Right up there with Kope's bike.
What a bad ass machine. Definitely one of the top trick bikes on the forum. Right up there with Kope's bike.
My track bitch
I have just realised that I posted this in the wrong thread. It was suppose to go in the Panigale picture thread! And I cant seem to delete it
Bet everyone think I was a bit random just sticking pics of my bike in your thread!
jarelj
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jarelj
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- Joined
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- 2,159
- Location
- Omaha, NE USA
Got another dry track day in at Raceway Park of the Midlands yesterday, a little chilly and windy, so not not ideal conditions, but dry. Moving the swingarm pivot down to -4mm setting was a HUGE improvement in rear grip. My wheel slip graphs showed half the slip of the prior session at that track with the pivot in the +2 position. I think it's pretty obvious why Ducati made the -4mm position the standard on all 1299's now. The bike was still unstable on the throttle, especially into the stiff headwind on the main straight, I had to stay tucked way down behind the windscreen or I would get nasty headshake even in 5th gear (not a comfortable feeling). I think I still have the rear ride height too high, will be lowering it down for next time. The front end feels pretty good, but not getting enough dive during braking to have a sharp corner entry, so planning to pull some oil out of the forks. I switched to 14/41 gearing from 15/41 and that was a big improvement also, it kept me in 3rd gear in most turns rather than 2nd gear, which make it easier to ride and smoother corner exits. This engine has really good torque, even down as low as 5000 rpm, which is nice. I only managed a 1:47 lap which is rubbish (I've done 1:39 at this track) but in the less-than-ideal conditions I was taking it pretty easy on corner entries, not trailing hard into the turns, so that's several seconds a lap. Looking forward to the weather FINALLY warming up and getting some nice grippy track conditions. I'll be back out there May 30/31 so have a little time to do some routine maintenance in the meantime, oil change, lube the chain, flush the brake and clutch fluid.
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