Back in the shop

Just to give some opinion and not completely derail you classified ad.

I think going to a smaller bike is a great idea, but what I am reading doesn't really seem like the most honest approach. Getting multiple smaller bikes and journeying thru them moving on once you have mastered them is not realistic. Trust me you don't have the time to do that...

Get one smaller bike and go for it. To me this really speaks to the fact that you should build to a supebike, you started with one then got a gxsr but now want a different smaller bike? I think you do also have to reason with your draw to bikes, all of us on here loving Ducatis sort of for a reason - Kramers are cool but do you think a single 690 is going to be engaging and draw you to the track? Sure the RR or the 8CRC will prolly hit more of the nerve to go ride but also probably be better moderate step down power wise for someone of your size. Also keep in mind a V2 would be an excellent mid power bike for you to consider.

In no way is any of this meant to sound too critical or negative just wanted to provide my insight on it, I think the foundation of it is spot on. Get a smaller bike learn how to sail around the outside of V4R guys on corners but also triple down on fitness and understanding the nuances of riding at the track, once you start seeing big accomplishments you might NOT come back to riding big bikes.

KarlKani said:

Just to give some opinion and not completely derail you classified ad.

I think going to a smaller bike is a great idea, but what I am reading doesn't really seem like the most honest approach. Getting multiple smaller bikes and journeying thru them moving on once you have mastered them is not realistic. Trust me you don't have the time to do that...

Get one smaller bike and go for it. To me this really speaks to the fact that you should build to a supebike, you started with one then got a gxsr but now want a different smaller bike? I think you do also have to reason with your draw to bikes, all of us on here loving Ducatis sort of for a reason - Kramers are cool but do you think a single 690 is going to be engaging and draw you to the track? Sure the RR or the 8CRC will prolly hit more of the nerve to go ride but also probably be better moderate step down power wise for someone of your size. Also keep in mind a V2 would be an excellent mid power bike for you to consider.

In no way is any of this meant to sound too critical or negative just wanted to provide my insight on it, I think the foundation of it is spot on. Get a smaller bike learn how to sail around the outside of V4R guys on corners but also triple down on fitness and understanding the nuances of riding at the track, once you start seeing big accomplishments you might NOT come back to riding big bikes.

Click to expand...

All valid, and yes I’m still debating about the Evo2…for sure I think I’ll progress faster if I do 3 to 5 track days on one of those then jump up to an 890, but do I really want to spend 23k on a bike that I’ll likely outgrow after 3 to 5 track days?

The GSXR is still a pretty big powerful liter bike, surprisingly so, though it does have the benefit that I don’t mind crashing it, it’s also not that much of a ‘dialing back’ from my bike, definitely less savage though.

Alkhater said:

That’s what I mean… with regards to ergonomics not comfort.

I’m 6’ and even on the Panigale it’s a challenge to get into a proper tuck, that’s with the clip ons as far forward as they can go without hitting the steering damper. Part of the reason I’m moving the damper to the si

Click to expand...

Steven31371 said:

All valid, and yes I’m still debating about the Evo2…for sure I think I’ll progress faster if I do 3 to 5 track days on one of those then jump up to an 890, but do I really want to spend 23k on a bike that I’ll likely outgrow after 3 to 5 track days?

The GSXR is still a pretty big powerful liter bike, surprisingly so, though it does have the benefit that I don’t mind crashing it, it’s also not that much of a ‘dialing back’ from my bike, definitely less savage though.

Click to expand...

The GSXR is like 140 crank I think. But more importantly no electronics (buy an old one). And it's both shorter and lighter. Very 600 like. My friend had one after tossing away a couple of liter bikes. He's about 6' 1" and liked the riding position. In the end what did you think about the sicom's, didn't you have a set?

baggerman said:

The GSXR is like 140 crank I think. But more importantly no electronics (buy an old one). And it's both shorter and lighter. Very 600 like. My friend had one after tossing away a couple of liter bikes. He's about 6' 1" and liked the riding position. In the end what did you think about the sicom's, didn't you have a set?

Click to expand...

I love the Sicom Rotors and pads, when combined with an upgraded MC they are perfect, very progressive initial bite but ramp up to about the same stopping power as steel rotors with Z04 pads. But 5 pounds less rotational mass than the latter.

I’ll use them on any bike I get moving forward.

Thanks. Do you think they're streetable? How do they act with the rotors cold? And what MC?

baggerman said:

Thanks. Do you think they're streetable? How do they act with the rotors cold? And what MC?

Click to expand...

I have the 17 RCS Corsa Corta

Work equally well on street or track, they aren’t like old school CF rotors that need to heat up

There is a very specific bedding process you have to go through with them but once that’s done they work like normal brakes but with 5 pounds less rotating mass, so the bike feels 30 or 40 pounds lighter

OK thanks. One needs to buy oneself a proper christmas present.

V2 Bayliss for the win...Many used available now....

Jolly Roger V4 said:

V2 Bayliss for the win...Many used available now....

Click to expand...

A guy crashed one and was airlifted out the last day I was at Chickwallah

Perfect bike for mods Steven

Perfect super mid for that track. Throw an exhaust on it and be done. Ride it all day long and never get tired. I almost bought one. Got
another super mid and love it at that track.

Jolly Roger V4 said:

Perfect super mid for that track. Throw an exhaust on it and be done. Ride it all day long and never get tired. I almost bought one. Got
another super mid and love it at that track.

Click to expand...

What did you get?

I’m leaning toward a Kramer Evo2 690R

I want light, easy and crashable with good braking and control, that turns crisply.

When I 1st started building my bike it was about building the sexiest most capable bike I could…then learning how to ride it. But it was about the bike 1st, riding 2nd.

But now it’s all about the riding, I want to do some amateur racing but I’m far from being able to be competitive, and not progressing as quickly as I’d like…so now it’s about going back to basics with the bike, regardless of cost and looks.

As all of you said, learning to ride fast on a 120k nearly WSBK spec V4 isn’t probably the easiest route. But at the time I didn’t care, I wanted that super sexy bike to have fun on, and however fast I was or was not on it was okay.

Moving forward for at least half a season I want a bike that literally disappears under me but still does exactly what I ask it to do. A bike that’s flickable like my Ducati but that I give no ..... about low siding while I ride it at its limits, and reaching it’s limits are attainable fairly smoothly and easily.

I think I’ll go test ride a V2 and see how it feels, with the Kramer I also literally have to do nothing to it except get the right springs on it. (And maybe put some Sicom Rotors on there lol)

Assume you lose ABS if you put the Sicoms on?

If you want a Ducati buy a 1098s. Good wheels, nice ohlins, motor has a broad span of torque (good drive particularly with the cams timed to supersport specs). Comes with 330 discs. Has TC that's better turned off. 150-155 HP at the wheel. Easy to work on. Has easily adjustable ride height. Collectors all want the 1198s so should be able to buy one cheap. Needs a slipper (readily available and cheap) and maybe different triples. Easy to work on. And as a racebike 360 dry?

CSV4 said:

Assume you lose ABS if you put the Sicoms on?

Click to expand...

No, just a rotor and pad replacement, nothing to do with ABS

The braking with the Sicoms isn’t dramatically enough different than say steel rotors and Z04’s to cause an error with the abs electronics.

The overall braking power is about the same though the ramp up or progression to full braking power is a very different feel with the Sicom. But no so diffferent as to cause an abs fault.

Steven31371 said:

What did you get?

I’m leaning toward a Kramer Evo2 690R

I want light, easy and crashable with good braking and control, that turns crisply.

When I 1st started building my bike it was about building the sexiest most capable bike I could…then learning how to ride it. But it was about the bike 1st, riding 2nd.

But now it’s all about the riding, I want to do some amateur racing but I’m far from being able to be competitive, and not progressing as quickly as I’d like…so now it’s about going back to basics with the bike, regardless of cost and looks.

As all of you said, learning to ride fast on a 120k nearly WSBK spec V4 isn’t probably the easiest route. But at the time I didn’t care, I wanted that super sexy bike to have fun on, and however fast I was or was not on it was okay.

Moving forward for at least half a season I want a bike that literally disappears under me but still does exactly what I ask it to do. A bike that’s flickable like my Ducati but that I give no ..... about low siding while I ride it at its limits, and reaching it’s limits are attainable fairly smoothly and easily.

I think I’ll go test ride a V2 and see how it feels, with the Kramer I also literally have to do nothing to it except get the right springs on it. (And maybe put some Sicom Rotors on there lol)

Click to expand...

Unless you’re around 130-150 lbs the 690 is going to feel slow. Even the 890 will feel slow down long straights. I was riding w an 890 at Laguna Seca which would pull 5-7 bike lengths through Rainey curve to T11 and I would catch it all back on the main “straight” by T2. That saying LS, isn’t an HP heavy track. I was probably 20 mph faster up to T1 and just maintained that closure over the crest to T2.

A well sorted V2 or just going w a more recent version on the V4 but turned down to low power would prob best meet your needs. All those mods and upgrades you did on your current V4 have muddied the waters. Keep things simple.

If you really wanted to get rider skill proficient, getting on a mini bike like an Ohvale (if that’s physically feasible if you’re lanky) or a dirt track (not mx) would seriously tune you up.

CSV4 said:

Assume you lose ABS if you put the Sicoms on?

Click to expand...

Injuneer….

Steven31371 said:

What did you get?

I’m leaning toward a Kramer Evo2 690R

I want light, easy and crashable with good braking and control, that turns crisply.

When I 1st started building my bike it was about building the sexiest most capable bike I could…then learning how to ride it. But it was about the bike 1st, riding 2nd.

But now it’s all about the riding, I want to do some amateur racing but I’m far from being able to be competitive, and not progressing as quickly as I’d like…so now it’s about going back to basics with the bike, regardless of cost and looks.

As all of you said, learning to ride fast on a 120k nearly WSBK spec V4 isn’t probably the easiest route. But at the time I didn’t care, I wanted that super sexy bike to have fun on, and however fast I was or was not on it was okay.

Moving forward for at least half a season I want a bike that literally disappears under me but still does exactly what I ask it to do. A bike that’s flickable like my Ducati but that I give no ..... about low siding while I ride it at its limits, and reaching it’s limits are attainable fairly smoothly and easily.

I think I’ll go test ride a V2 and see how it feels, with the Kramer I also literally have to do nothing to it except get the right springs on it. (And maybe put some Sicom Rotors on there lol)

Click to expand...

Sounds like an R1… that’s what I’d get.

Relatively cheap, will move a heavy lad and will satisfy your itch for mods lol.

R1
- Brakes
- Suspension
- Exhaust
- Track Fairing

… “Flat out the canyons”

No, seriously… it’s an established platform that’s fast, has part availability and in my opinion is one of if not the best looking and sounding bikes.

But most importantly… especially in your case is the size of the bike.

I rode a CBR 600RR before jumping on the Duc and the Honda wasn’t fun. Only had an exhaust and map, no other mods but It feels much faster than it is because of its size and worst of all is it was so difficult to get a comfortable body position to maneuver the bike.

I’ve come to the conclusion from this experience that chassis and controls ergonomics are probably the most important factor when considering a platform… followed by setup then components.

All things considered I think an R1 is currently by far the most practical bike to track.

Alkhater said:

Sounds like an R1… that’s what I’d get.

Relatively cheap, will move a heavy lad and will satisfy your itch for mods lol.

R1
- Brakes
- Suspension
- Exhaust
- Track Fairing

… “Flat out the canyons”

No, seriously… it’s an established platform that’s fast, has part availability and in my opinion is one of if not the best looking and sounding bikes.

But most importantly… especially in your case is the size of the bike.

I rode a CBR 600RR before jumping on the Duc and the Honda wasn’t fun. Only had an exhaust and map, no other mods but It feels much faster than it is because of its size and worst of all is it was so difficult to get a comfortable body position to maneuver the bike.

I’ve come to the conclusion from this experience that chassis and controls ergonomics are probably the most important factor when considering a platform… followed by setup then components.

All things considered I think an R1 is currently by far the most practical bike to track.

Click to expand...

All good advice, and when I’m done with the current project I might just do that.

I love the R1’s…what I’m leaning toward now is building out a Pierobon V4, because that’s the closest thing to a Kramer with a Ducati V4 rngine.

But before I do any of that I’m going to flog the .... out of an 80 HP 280 pound Kramer Evo2 until I have competitive and complete bike control through corners, until I can ride it at and over its limit on every lap of every corner. Then I’ll decide if I go back to a more manageable liter bike or go a midway step to a Kramer 890RR. And I’ll ride that until I can comfortably ride it at and over it’s limits on every corner.

Then we’ll go back to an R1 or most likely a Ducati powered Pierobon

I’m not looking for a new bike because I don’t love what I have and just want something new…I love my bike. But, I started riding sport bikes at 50 years old, when I was overweight and out of shape. I got a lot of coaching, I lost 30 pounds and got in shape, but I started riding as my very first bike essentially a V4 SR. It’s simply too much bike for me to learn to ride at its limits on, because the limits are so high and speeds so high etc, there was no progression to my riding building up to it with my skill sets building up to it too.

It’s like I entered a 3 point contest without ever playing basketball before. So I’m going to go backward to the beginning as far as o can go, the smallest bike “that I can fit on”, that still has world class handling characteristics and light weight so it’s still fun to ride seems to be the Kramer Evo2 690R. I have one mission with that bike…to learn bike control at the track, to get my knees and maybe elbows dragging, with the bike at the limits of its traction, with maximum corner roll speed precision and on throttle earlier harder and faster. Not chasing laptimes with that bike, chasing improved skill and daring with that bike.

what do you mean by a pierobon V4?