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KarlKani said:

Scooter brake setup the clutch is always above the brake

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Why?

I mean if you’re 5’6” and only use the clutch when you’re in a tucked position for a race launch I came to get it. But I am.6’3” with a different angle of my arms to the handlebar, so I’d have to really crank my wrist and drop my elbow to use the clutch. I don’t see any mechanical or safety reason why you need the clutch above the scooter brake instead of below it, and ergonomically it feels way better?

The clutch isn't used, The brake is what should be in the primary position

Steven31371 said:

Why?

I mean if you’re 5’6” and only use the clutch when you’re in a tucked position for a race launch I came to get it. But I am.6’3” with a different angle of my arms to the handlebar, so I’d have to really crank my wrist and drop my elbow to use the clutch. I don’t see any mechanical or safety reason why you need the clutch above the scooter brake instead of below it, and ergonomically it feels way better?

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I would’ve thought you want the brake in a normal low position as you use it a lot. The clutch is only used maybe twice.

Ahh, now I get where you’re coming from. I’ll try to take some pics showing the angle that I have the brake lever at it is actually in the right position, roughly matching ergonomically, the same position as the front brake on the right hand side, I think you just can’t tell from the pictures I posted, the clutches below that in a lower position then you would normally have it.

If it works for you then that’s all that matters, but I’ve never seen anyone set it up like that before. Every other one I have seen puts the clutch well up out of the way.

When I did mine brake on top was the most comfortable and as I’ll use it more often than the clutch I wanted it the go to lever rather than a conscious move to get to below.

I also found the available space restricted which way around it was. Lifting the clutch lever up and it catches on the front fairing mount having the rear brake master low it catches on the fairing on full lock

It’s also positioned to use the index finger rather than a full grip

Never seen it before and then two come along…

There’s a lot you are yet to see…

I live in hope.

Meh. Just complicating things… The foot rear brake is sufficient for a track day bike. Race bikes are different.

SuperDomestique said:

Meh. Just complicating things… The foot rear brake is sufficient for a track day bike. Race bikes are different.

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Sure it is, but believe it or not, once you get use to it the thumb brake makes the bike a little easier to ride in some instances, and the thumb brake is less than ideal ergonomically. The index finger brake should be even better ergonomically.

I like to brake hard and late, which can really upset the bike for a newer rider, lightly tapping the rear brake just before the front brake smooths that braking transition in a hard braking zone. You feel less unsettled.

You could still use the foot brake in that instance but with the foot it’s too easy to over brake and lock up the rear which I’ve done, now you’ve unsettled instead of settling the bike.

Lately I was playing with using the rear brake on a decreasing radius of a curve, particularly useful on double apex and decreasing apex corners. Not comfortable finding the foot brake at lean, and the thumb brake was a little awkward to finesse at lean too…hence the switch to the scooter brake. Feathering on the rear brake late into a corner tightens the radius of the corner without adding more lean or losing as much engine rpm, it’s almost like a cheat code on that last bit.

Andy, I use the long bars on my Woodcraft setup, that gave me more real estate to work with in fitting the switches, clutch MC, and Scooter Brake. Also the Dicacciati Finger brake and bracket is a lot smaller than the IMA thumb brake and bracketing, the latter was hitting my gas tank at full lock.

My bike feels great into corners with just using the front brake. Proper bike setup (aka stock) will get you to the 9/10ths of the way. I think as a novice, braking hard and late is a mistake. Braking should be a smooth affair to where you can properly set corner speed and then work on braking deeper into the corner. Doing this properly shouldn’t twist the bike in knots. Remember, you’re doing a trackday not a race. IMO, if you haven’t mastered the front brake then you’re not ready to use the rear. If anything, you’re doing yourself a disservice

SuperDomestique said:

My bike feels great into corners with just using the front brake. Proper bike setup (aka stock) will get you to the 9/10ths of the way. I think as a novice, braking hard and late is a mistake. Braking should be a smooth affair to where you can properly set corner speed and then work on braking deeper into the corner. Doing this properly shouldn’t twist the bike in knots. Remember, you’re doing a trackday not a race. IMO, if you haven’t mastered the front brake then you’re not ready to use the rear. If anything, you’re doing yourself a disservice

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I think you should stop judging people by your own standards …

andyb said:

I think you should stop judging people by your own standards …

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Kettle. Pot. Black. But I guess when you have a bike with lots of stickers, this doesn’t apply to you.

Also unless you’re at the pointy end of A’s, you’re still a novice. I’m still a novice when it comes to track day riding. But I also have 15 years plus of track day riding experience and have learned a lot over those years. I’ve made those mistakes. I’d rather ride with a slow consistent rider than fast wild one.

The reality is that a bone stock V4 set up for your weight with slicks and the right tire pressure will get you within 10 seconds (most likely a lot less) of the litre bike lap record. Adding a thumb brake, longer swingarm, adjustable triples, lightweight whatever is not going to make once bit of difference until you are well into the A group. We are not talking about some ....... track bike from the 2000's, its a V4 that Pecco was lapping within 5 seconds of MotoGP times...

Anyway bling away, add fun stuff and burn up your middle age salaries on our favourite toy but dont forget to get training. If I had my time over instead of spending money on a pipe and carbon etc Id get proper training and much more track time first.

Even Pecco doesn’t use a thumb or scooter brake on his trainer V4

SuperDomestique said:

Kettle. Pot. Black. But I guess when you have a bike with lots of stickers, this doesn’t apply to you.

Also unless you’re at the pointy end of A’s, you’re still a novice. I’m still a novice when it comes to track day riding. But I also have 15 years plus of track day riding experience and have learned a lot over those years. I’ve made those mistakes. I’d rather ride with a slow consistent rider than fast wild one.

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Well along those lines a bone stock bike with sticky rubber is too much bike too learn on, I’ve expressed my thoughts on this. Without a single mod this bike is already such a blast to your senses and the speed so great that it inhibits rather than helps a novice rider to go fast.

That’s why I’m ordering a Kramer that I’ll keep bone stock other than some Sicom Rotors and heavier springs.

On this bike I was already using the thumb brake and am use to it now, and won’t likely go backwards on that. Other than switching to index finger instead of thumb. Do you need it, no, but it’s kinda like a Quickshifter, after you use one and get use to it you don’t wanna go back to not having it.

I’m pretty sure guys wrote the EXACT same kinda post about blip shifters when they came out

SuperDomestique said:

Even Pecco doesn’t use a thumb or scooter brake on his trainer V4

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Yes, but does he drink lattes on the regular?
I like a latte break please, thanks...

Dont get me wrong here, stick as much go faster bling on your bike as you like, its all part of the fun but bikes are absolutely impartial when it comes to skill, the platform dont care! Thats why I like riding, its honest and the feedback is in your face, if youre not up to the speed you're going then there will be consequences- some very serious. Scoot brakes yep why not, a bit of extra enjoyment. Who knows maybe you WILL be able to back it in with a deft dab of the left hand and leave big black lines all the way through the turn

So we always end up back at this
So let’s all get back in to c90s and learn to ride properly before trying to exploit 200+ hp (185 in the USA) let alone sticky tyres, posh suspension, carbon this carbon that
It’s a non sensible argument of talking .... !