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cl955 · Oct 29, 2023

spooky said:
Nobody has said anything that would contradict that.

Still interested in your answer to my question regarding how much time you think slicks are worth over stock road tyres.

With a good rider that could fully exploit both tyres without crashing, depending on the track and stickiness of the slick, I would guess between 2 and 4 seconds.
This is purely a gut feel however, with some datapoints stored somewhere in my mind such as qualifying slicks vs race slicks etc...

spooky · Oct 29, 2023

cl955 said:
With a good rider that could fully exploit both tyres without crashing, depending on the track and stickiness of the slick, I would guess between 2 and 4 seconds.
This is purely a gut feel however, with some datapoints stored somewhere in my mind such as qualifying slicks vs race slicks etc...

Interesting.

So, if Martin on a V4S on stock tyres was within 5 seconds of his MotoGP bike at Jerez testing then that would put him at around 1:40 on slicks (1:42 on road tyres), which is the fastest lap managed by Bautista on a full factory V4R in yesterday’s full race. That stock V4S is really something… Different riders of course.

Jolly Roger V4 · Oct 29, 2023

spooky said:
Nobody has said anything that would contradict that.

Still interested in your answer to my question regarding how much time you think slicks are worth over stock road tyres.

Rider dependent for sure...Someone did comparison at Chuckwalla. Delta was under a second SC2 versus TD treaded tire. Not a pro rider but difference
was feel and confidence in the tire. Plenty of people on TD's killing it versus slicks. Watch chasing Tenths youtube channel. Sylvain G. ran Metzeler TD slicks
versus SC0 on his GSXR1000 and delta was 2 seconds. Said he would go with TD's for track days or long endurance race. No dropoff in performance.
Bottom line figure 2 seconds slick versus street based tire with pro rider!!

cl955 · Oct 29, 2023

spooky said:
Interesting.

So, if Martin on a V4S on stock tyres was within 5 seconds of his MotoGP bike at Jerez testing then that would put him at around 1:40 on slicks (1:42 on road tyres), which is the fastest lap managed by Bautista on a full factory V4R in yesterday’s full race. That stock V4S is really something… Different riders of course.

Hmmm... was he definitely on Supercorsa SP tyres? He might have had Supercorsa SC which are much closer to a slick.

As other better qualified riders on here might attest, running sticky tyres will require stiffer springs, damping changes etc... all of which will take the bike further away from stook and decrease lap times/increase confidence.

craig bush · Oct 29, 2023

Jolly Roger V4 said:
Rider dependent for sure...Someone did comparison at Chuckwalla. Delta was under a second SC2 versus TD treaded tire. Not a pro rider but difference
was feel and confidence in the tire. Plenty of people on TD's killing it versus slicks. Watch chasing Tenths youtube channel. Sylvain G. ran Metzeler TD slicks
versus SC0 on his GSXR1000 and delta was 2 seconds. Said he would go with TD's for track days or long endurance race. No dropoff in performance.
Bottom line figure 2 seconds slick versus street based tire with pro rider!!

So a $500 set of slicks is worth a full second over stock, but we have folks here trying to convince us that the tens of millions invested by a MotoGP team only nets another few seconds of improvement over a stock production bike.

Bunch of canyon racers.

JohnSmith · Oct 29, 2023

Jolly Roger V4 said:
Rider dependent for sure...Someone did comparison at Chuckwalla. Delta was under a second SC2 versus TD treaded tire. Not a pro rider but difference
was feel and confidence in the tire. Plenty of people on TD's killing it versus slicks. Watch chasing Tenths youtube channel. Sylvain G. ran Metzeler TD slicks
versus SC0 on his GSXR1000 and delta was 2 seconds. Said he would go with TD's for track days or long endurance race. No dropoff in performance.
Bottom line figure 2 seconds slick versus street based tire with pro rider!!

Chuckwalla is not he best track for this analysis, that delta would jump on faster tracks esp that are more stop and go

Jolly Roger V4 · Oct 29, 2023

Chuckwalla isn't the best for anything honestly. Wasn't a pro rider anyway. Biggest takeaway for most track day riders was the feel versus absolute grip.
The TD spec tires have enough grip for 99 percent of track day riders. Slicks offer the confidence of the extra grip just in case for most.

spooky · Oct 29, 2023

Jolly Roger V4 said:
Chuckwalla isn't the best for anything honestly. Wasn't a pro rider anyway. Biggest takeaway for most track day riders was the feel versus absolute grip.
The TD spec tires have enough grip for 99 percent of track day riders. Slicks offer the confidence of the extra grip just in case for most.

I’m using DOT SC3 at the moment and they seem great. I look forward to trying slicks for the reason you mentioned.

baggerman · Oct 29, 2023

Corner grip is pretty close with the good dot stuff. The real difference is the braking.

Jolly Roger V4 · Oct 29, 2023

spooky said:
I’m using DOT SC3 at the moment and they seem great. I look forward to trying slicks for the reason you mentioned.

SC3 plenty good for trackdays. I see guys running SC0 and SCX to get under a certain time. Son, if you can't do it on a SC1 or SC2 you ain't there yet my friend!

panibadboy · Oct 29, 2023

Jolly Roger V4 said:
Chuckwalla isn't the best for anything honestly. Wasn't a pro rider anyway. Biggest takeaway for most track day riders was the feel versus absolute grip.
The TD spec tires have enough grip for 99 percent of track day riders. Slicks offer the confidence of the extra grip just in case for most.

V02s are the cheapest fastest slicks out there.

spooky · Oct 29, 2023

panibadboy said:
V02s are the cheapest fastest slicks out there.

I’ve seen them raved about by certain channels but you always wonder if that’s because they are getting them for free.

I’ve been happy with Pirelli tyres so far (it came with V4 SP tyres, which were great, and I’ve gone on to SC3 DOT), which is funny as I wouldn’t go near Pirelli on a car - hated them.

panibadboy · Oct 29, 2023

spooky said:
I’ve seen them raved about by certain channels but you always wonder if that’s because they are getting them for free.

I’ve been happy with Pirelli tyres so far (it came with V4 SP tyres, which were great, and I’ve gone on to SC3 DOT), which is funny as I wouldn’t go near Pirelli on a car - hated them.

SC3 is the best you've tried so far ? oh mate, you havent lived the life yet

spooky · Oct 29, 2023

Jolly Roger V4 said:
SC3 plenty good for trackdays. I see guys running SC0 and SCX to get under a certain time. Son, if you can't do it on a SC1 or SC2 you ain't there yet my friend!

I have a long way to go before tyres are the limiting factor.

In reality, I can’t imagine the DOT SC3 would ever be a limiting factor. I seem to recall the slick version being cheaper for some reason. Could be wrong.

panibadboy · Oct 29, 2023

spooky said:
I have a long way to go before tyres are the limiting factor. In reality, I can’t imagine the DOT SC3 would ever be a limiting factor. I seem to recall the slick version being cheaper for some reason. Could be wrong.

thats a good answer, you will feel when you need a better tire.

otherwise V02s cost cheaper than SC3 and give much feel/drive.

do a day next time Rehm comes to Most, they sell them

spooky · Oct 29, 2023

panibadboy said:
SC3 is the best you've tried so far ? oh mate, you havent lived the life yet

I look forward to living the life.

Early days on track for me.

Paul G · Oct 29, 2023

craig bush said:
So a $500 set of slicks is worth a full second over stock, but we have folks here trying to convince us that the tens of millions invested by a MotoGP team only nets another few seconds of improvement over a stock production bike.

Bunch of canyon racers.

Lol, the good news is that yes modern super bikes that you and I can buy are ridiculously fast but the sad reality is that as you approach the limits of accelleration and grip with current tech every 1/1000th or a second is going to cost you a a few hundred k plus in development!

spooky · Oct 29, 2023

panibadboy said:
thats a good answer, you will feel when you need a better tire.

otherwise V02s cost cheaper than SC3 and give much feel/drive.

do a day next time Rehm comes to Most, they sell them

I’ve got my eyes open for booking Most and Brno as much as possible next year, so I’ll have a look at that.

V02s seem a little bit cheaper here - not a huge amount but I guess it adds up.

spooky · Oct 29, 2023

Actually, I’ve just realised that we are discussing this in @Steven31371 ’s thread and there’s probably been more than enough off-topic shenanigans without us spending ten pages talking about tyres…

I’ll try to keep the topic in mind but I can’t make any promises…

craig bush · Oct 29, 2023

Paul G said:
Lol, the good news is that yes modern super bikes that you and I can buy are ridiculously fast but the sad reality is that as you approach the limits of accelleration and grip with current tech every 1/1000th or a second is going to cost you a a few hundred k plus in development!

I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell anyone who believes a $30k bike with 200hp and weighing 400lbs can lap within 5 seconds of a $1MIL bike with 300hp weighing 330lbs. .

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