Brainwashed Woman

speedy14 said:

'So you believe you came from the goo to you huh? LOL... NO creator...?

With all respect...
To each his own. I will pray for you man!

Speedy

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Thanks Speedy
But I should inform you, I am a Satanist

JonT said:

You guys have got to be kidding, the church has no moral high ground here at all, every major war in history has been fought under a religious banner

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Commonly parroted argument, but the Roman Catholic system is not the "Church" - and hasn't been since about 400 AD, it's a fortress of greed and corruption

The true histroy of the Roman "church" can be found here
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/pre-reformation.html

shall we discuss Billy Graham and the thousands of other television evangelists that have wealth beyond most peoples dreams

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Billy Graham lives in a pretty modest house outside Asheville, NC - I've been by it, he's not a Joel Osteen type charlatan

The church has lost all credibility in modern times, if it ever had any to begin with.

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Borad brush generalizations like this are always the domain of the lazy/simple minded. The scripture has not changed, God has not changed. The number of people who actually follow the scripture is probably about 5% or less - truth isn't based on a poll or casual observations about "the church" -most people have no idea what the true church is, anyway. You will not answer to Joel Osteen or the pope at the Judgment. All finger pointing goes out the window then and your entire life is squeezed down to a point in time. That's what REALLY matters - "who will I really have to answer to?"

The actual topic was common descent vs. engineered creation anyway, and there is only one logical viewpoint on that debate - the rest is just arm waving/distraction/rabbit trails. You sound like another ex-catholic who's mind has been posioned by the smoke and mirrors that is the Roman Catholic system -tragic, but there are vast numbers of you. The Roman Catholic "church" is far more successful in damning souls than even Islam.

Prince Albert said:

But I should inform you, I am a Satanist

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Most atheists should just call themselves satanists in my opinion, because it really comes down to love of self, glorification fo self, and hatred of God - it's rebellion at the core.

fzr100098 said:

Commonly parroted argument, but the Roman Catholic system is not the "Church" - and hasn't been since about 400 AD, it's a fortress of greed and corruption

The true histroy of the Roman "church" can be found here
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/pre-reformation.html



Billy Graham lives in a pretty modest house outside Asheville, NC - I've been by it, he's not a Joel Osteen type charlatan



Borad brush generalizations like this are always the domain of the lazy/simple minded. The scripture has not changed, God has not changed. The number of people who actually follow the scripture is probably about 5% or less - truth isn't based on a poll or casual observations about "the church" -most people have no idea what the true church is, anyway. You will not answer to Joel Osteen or the pope at the Judgment. All finger pointing goes out the window then and your entire life is squeezed down to a point in time. That's what REALLY matters - "who will I really have to answer to?"

The actual topic was common descent vs. engineered creation anyway, and there is only one logical viewpoint on that debate - the rest is just arm waving/distraction/rabbit trails. You sound like another ex-catholic who's mind has been posioned by the smoke and mirrors that is the Roman Catholic system -tragic, but there are vast numbers of you. The Roman Catholic "church" is far more successful in damning souls than even Islam.

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That's quite a long bow you have drawn there, to call me lazy or simple minded would be offensive to most but I do make exceptions for the religiously inclined for 'they know not what they do'. The simple mind is easliy led into blind faith following without questioning real facts or conducting research, but then again, who cares, I'm with PA, I'm destined to burn in hell forever.........or maybe Santa and the Easter bunny will save me.

To each his own, and i'm certainly not here to judge... but... it seems as if religion may be the core advocate of man's downfall?
It's a government using "scare tactics" to keep humans in line or else face the consequences in the so called "afterlife"
Not to generalize, but it also seems as if Wars seem to usually associated with religion, no ?

No blind faith here - rational and reasoned faith. Israel is on track to draw the world into war as predicted and there will be a global cashless economic system, everything is well on course. Human nature is well defined and all nations follow the same cycle of decline into a moral cespool. Darwinism on the other hand keeps making one miserable failed prediction after another: "junk DNA", "transitional forms", "vetigial organs", "alien life" - laughable nonsense, who really believe in "Santa"? I might add, that's yet another endless parroted distraction - and it's just ........ anyway, the scripture has a 3500 year record of veractiy, too many people casually dismiss it because their similarly igorant buddies think it has no value or something in their past/youth turned them off (cue the Catholic "church")

Your hope (I guess) is a John Lenon-esque fantasy that death is the end, and then nothingness, no hell, no Judgment - that's not hope, it's a temporay delusion that gets far worse after death, and life is short

JonT said:

You guys have got to be kidding, the church has no moral high ground here at all, every major war in history has been fought under a religious banner and we shouldn't even mention the fact that .......... appears to be a subject taught at the seminary, shall we discuss Billy Graham and the thousands of other television evangelists that have wealth beyond most peoples dreams and are moral vacuums themselves. The church has lost all credibility in modern times, if it ever had any to begin with.

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Evidently you have never read much more about Billy Graham than what some liberal magazine has written.. LOL Yes you are right there is a lot of hypocrisy in the church and everywhere else in the world..

Being a Christian is not about belonging to a certain church or being "religious" It is about a personal relationship with Christ.. There will and will always be evil in the world..! We are all born into sin.. Do what you will and rationalize it anyway you want. After all, that is what really got Evolution into the mainstream. Those that wanted to live the way they wanted and not face the Creator simply invented or adopted the theory of Evolution because it freed them to be what they wanted to be and not face and consequences.
If there is no God then you can do what you want right? . One day you will have to stand before God and explain yourself.
He will ask you one thing What did you do with my Son.. Did you accept him as your savior ? I sent him down to earth to live a sinless life and to become the sacrificial lamb as propitiation to pay the sins of all mankind that believe in him.. Did you accept him?

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist.. Many will say Prove there is a God..Well I cannot prove there is a God with direct empirical evidence that you require.. In other words he has not drifted down from Heaven and got on CNN etc LOL.. All I have to do is look around and notice what I see around me and the miracle that is the fact that we all exist with all the things God provided for us.. Just look around you. . That is a lot of evidence my friend it is enough for me at least..
. (Well you can always claim that I cannot actually prove God exists). However you cannot prove God doesn't exist can you..?? We have to look at the evidence at hand. MY faith is based on the evidence that is all around me. It is not based on the church or "religious" people.. You base your faith on evolution (which is not provable ) and the evidence shows that.. You have to have much more faith to believe in evolution LOL.. I believe in a Creator that made all things You believe that over millions of years we all evolved from the goo to you huh! LOL

To each his own.. The way I look at it is this... If I try to live by God's moral code and belief in God (and one day I find out that I was wrong) at the very least I had a good moral guideline to try to live right.

If you choose not to believe and you are wrong then you will be in a very bad place for eternity! Are you THAT sure about your beliefs..?

do your own research . Your eternity depends on it..

I like all men on this earth am a terrible sinner, but I have an advocate that has paid the price for my sins..His name is Jesus Christ. I accepted Him a long time ago and I am not afraid to die.

I am sure I will bring down a lot of heat and be called a holy roller etc.. Personally It doesn't bother me. I will never back down on my beliefs
I am guilty as the next person when it comes to many sinful things. I am not special in any way when it comes to trying t live a moral life. I have weaknesses like everyone.

This whole thing started because of a posted a video of some lady that was well meaning if not eloquent in her delivery..! Well I think the real loser here was Dawkins.. to me He was the nut job..

Speedy

Prince Albert said:

To each his own, and i'm certainly not here to judge... but... it seems as if religion may be the core advocate of man's downfall?

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Religion is man made attempts to better himself, get closer to god, or be like god, and they all fail. Truth in the spiritual dimension originates with God alone. Yes, many will say the scripture is "man made", but the remarkable synergy of the 66 books with 30+ authors over 1500 years speak to something far more than the unholy Koran, the non-chronological ramblings of one child molesting "prophet" and violent revolutionary some 500 years after the original, with constant references to "the People of the Book". Hmmmm....obviously a cheap rip off of the OT for Arabs who hate Israel, nothing more

What other text is there? Opinions don't mean anything, if it's not written, it doesn't stand over time.

Not to generalize, but it also seems as if Wars seem to usually associated with religion, no ?

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In some cases, yes, because spiritual conflict leaves footprints in the physical dimension, but Christians are never called to violent conquest - the Crusades were not based on anything in the NT.

Despite many (ignorant) people claiming Hitler was a Christian, he was actually a social Darwinist who desired to rid the world of "undesirables" and establish a master race. Darwinism can be a religious system with as much fervor as anything else.

Ok
What concrete evidence do you have of an afterlife ?
( I guess you could turn the tables and say what evidence is there that there is no "afterlife")

I am not here to start any fights, I just find it fascinating when I come across people who believe in God and there reasons why they believe "it" exists...

PS- the world is going to .... pretty fast... When do you think the " second coming " will happen, in our lifetime? Have the events in revelations that John prophesied started, and if so
Then these are the "end of times" ....no ?

Prince Albert said:

What concrete evidence do you have of an afterlife ?

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Nothing empirical, it's based n faith - but you also must have faith there is no spirit in you that lives on. Do you really believe that? Life is such an empty void with that belief, why bother with anything

( I guess you could turn the tables and say what evidence is there that there is no "afterlife")

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Correct

PS- the world is going to .... pretty fast... When do you think the " second coming " will happen, in our lifetime? Have the events in revelations that John prophesied started, and if so
Then these are the "end of times" ....no ?

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Israel is the ticking time clock. Nothing about Biblical prophecy was even possible until the Jews were back in Israel and had control of Jerusalem (1967 - 6 Day War, and they were vastly outnumbered I might add), because one of the keys to the whole scenario is the Jews must rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.

As for " the afterlife"
I have told many of my older relatives to contact me when they die when I was a kid.... To this day, no one had contacted me....
If they have, I don't see any signs... I've even left my computer running over night several times to catch " voices" running very sophisticated software .....
There was nothing on the read outs.... I eve. Said out loud before I went to bed that I gave full permission to contact me....


Ps- if you believe in God, that means you believe in the " devil" correct ?

It's funny to read some peoples strong beliefs about believing in god = enter heaven. Don't believe in god = meet the devil himself.

Ones belief in a specific religion, whatever kinda higher being or lack thereof does not make someone a good or bad person. God's moral code? For ..... sake. Gimme a break. There are plenty of GOOD people who don't believe in either side...including myself. Since there isn't a single human alive as well as no actual proof of how mankind stepped foot on this planet, belief is nothing more than that....a belief.

Everyone seems to have a need to believe in something or fear of some potential consequence in an afterlife. I dunno .... about religion and definitely don't care to. Don't give a .... where we came from. It's not something any of us will ever know. PERIOD. I've never tried drugs or even held any in my hands ever. Never was involved in gang or criminal activities, I'm a single parent who takes care of home, I do volunteer work for the l.a. mission helping the folks in skid row and I'm an honest n straight up person who works and pays taxes like a citizen is supposed to. Because i don't believe in a god or any religion, by someone's standard, that's supposed to make me a bad person and i should fear my so called "judgment day?" That's ...... laughable.

For the record, by background, I'm Muslim. By background i mean I'm Turkish. Don't even get me started on the ........ allah and kuran talk. No different than any other man made belief.

double0 said:

Ones belief in a specific religion, whatever kinda higher being or lack thereof does not make someone a good or bad person. God's moral code? For ..... sake. Gimme a break. There are plenty of GOOD people who don't believe in either side...including myself.

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That's never the point. "Good" is subjective/relative, and basically a worthless "standard" when it comes to any human being. Christ extended the Law to the thoughts and intents of the heart - are you pure there, really? No, the heart of man is desperately wicked, and deceitful above all things - that includes you (and me). Human beings consistently think far more highly of themselves than they should (and what God thinks) - your "good works" are "filthy rags" to a perfectly holy God. The standard is absolute moral perfection, because God is perfect.

Because i don't believe in a god or any religion, by someone's standard, that's supposed to make me a bad person and i should fear my so called "judgment day?"

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Humans don't set the standard or Judge anyone. Opinions are worthless. The moral Law (not the civil, ceremonial, or dietary laws specific to OT Israel, before someone trots that out again) hasn't changed in 4000 years and believe me, you don't make the cut on your own merits.

For the record, by background, I'm Muslim.

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There is no absolution from sin in Isalm, just hope "Allah" accepts you if you pray enough and do enough external gyrations. It's another worthless, pagan religion.

Don't even get me started on the ........ allah and kuran talk. No different than any other man made belief.

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Objectively, there is zero comparison between the 66 books, 30+ authors of scripture over 1500+ years and one guy rambling against "the people of the Book" 500 years later.

C'mon - how does anyone become a Muslim, the Koran is so obviously a terrible rip off of the OT written for Arabs who hate Jews. People who certainly don't want to listen to any text that calls the Jews God's Elect. Well - oh well, they are - and all the hordes of Islam can't take them down. God doesn't need human numbers, He always wins.

Prince Albert said:

I have told many of my older relatives to contact me when they die when I was a kid.... To this day, no one had contacted me....

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Like I said, there is no evidence for life after death, otherwise where would the test of faith be? But God wanted that test But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

if you believe in God, that means you believe in the " devil" correct ?

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Do I believe in Satan? Absolutely - sometimes his activity is easier to see than God in the present time (aside from Creation itself). Not saying I find demons under every rock, but clear there is a spiritual warfare going on

That's the part I'm always confused about ....
If God is " perfect," why create man and then put "conditions" of faith in him at the expense of punishment ???

A sadistic God and bored God ( that he would have to create man and enforce conditions on man's existence ?)

If this God is so perfect there would be no need for the creation of other beings... Unless.... There is the " Ego" involved ... God gets satisfaction in his creations ? To give us free will seems a bit off in the bigger scheme of a being that created a Universe that is never mentioned to my knowledge in the bible... No talk about other planets or stars or galaxies only heaven and earth ....

Just my 2 cents...[emoji56]

Prince Albert said:

If God is " perfect," why create man and then put "conditions" of faith in him at the expense of punishment?

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Any created being, not being God, is prone to error (moral and otherwise). Even Christ Himself "learned obedience by the things He suffered" - an amazing statement. The primary purpose of life as the spiritual bootcamp of eternity is to build perseverance, endurance, and discipline in those God has called - traits God seeks in those who will inherit immorality. God doesn't want spiritual infants in the Kingdom (would you?), He desires mature, grown up spiritual adults of character and integrity. It takes time. Angels who sinned did not get a second chance - we do.

God gets satisfaction in his creations?

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Everything God does is for His ultimate glory. Those who refuse to glorify God will be shown what reality is like in the absense of anything good, in the absence of God. Where their worm does not die, and the fire never goes out...everyone will be salted for fire" (i.e. supernaturally preserved for fire)

To give us free will seems a bit off in the bigger scheme of a being that created a Universe that is never mentioned to my knowledge in the bible... No talk about other planets or stars or galaxies only heaven and earth

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Stars are mentioned in Genesis, but you always have to keep in mind the scripture is primarily focused on eternal, spiritual truths, the physical dimension is only described in the sense of providing the foundation/history of the human story and lessons learned (primarily by Israel in the OT)

If there was such a thing as god, bad wouldn't exist. All tragedies including 9-11 would never happen. So you're saying that for those who survived and thanked god almighty for makin it out of there alive are better people and more deserving of life than those 5000 people that lost their lives? What....none of those 5000 believed in god or practiced a specific religion of some sort?

Good can't coexist with bad when it comes to religion. Death is a form of punishment if it's a consequence of tragedy. Sorry but religion or belief in god can't be both ways. You can't thank a higher being for your survival and at the same time, witness death of thousands who probably also shared the same beliefs as those who survived.

I said I'm muslim by background, not by belief. My immediate family isn't brainwashed by it either. Extended family...well, that's another story. They simply don't understand reality.

double0 said:

If there was such a thing as god, bad wouldn't exist. All tragedies including 9-11 would never happen.

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See previous comment - evil and suffering is allowed for a prescribed time, and prescribed purpose. Suffering brings out the traits God seeks to develop in humans, pleasure and ease don't develop character in anyone. Think about it.

So you're saying that for those who survived and thanked god almighty for makin it out of there alive are better people and more deserving of life than those 5000 people that lost their lives?

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Anyone could die at any time - 9/11 is just a large number of people dying in an unsusual way that grabbed headlines. People die - hundreds of them - every second

Great discussion gents....

Absolutely there is an inexplicable being that is behind all of "this"... The problem we have had since people started communicating with one another is that everyone has their own take on how to make the inexplicable, well, explicable.

Unfortunately the better salesman seems to get it sold over on more people than someone who might have a better grasp (say .000000001% as opposed to .000000000000000000001%) on the matter.

I have spent a fair amount of time "studying" religion (specifically Christianity I should say), and I'm no closer to having a valid argument on the subject than I was when I was born.

Do what ya gotta do to be "right" with yourself, unless that includes impressing your opinion (opinion is almost too strong of a word) on others about this. Kinda like the Brainwashed Woman in the original post when that gets going.