BrenTuning Flash Development (Tech Talk)

teh1337ftw said:

You're going to tell me you encourage wideband tuning on a panigale? Explain why, please.

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LOL. You won't have a true auto tune without them. Also, narrow-band sensors are only accurate at 14.7/1 AFR. Pretty worthless if you want to tune the motor to run at 13.2/1. There are several of us on the forum running wide band setups.

Here's some reading material for you bud:

http://ducatiforum.com/mechanical-technical/19084-how-does-what-does-rapidbike.html

http://ducatiforum.com/ducati-1299/22287-tuneboy-map-feature-1299-panigale-r.html

If you send me one I'll post video of the entire process at a dyno. Stock pull, video of flash, brentune'd pull. My bike has the higher flow filter (not the gp 250 dollar one)

endodoc said:

Anyone who wants the side by side between the stock map and what Bren delivered, PM me. Happy to share. There, we are not waiting anymore. And our legal dept will be talking to Bren in the AM regarding their business practices of sharing customer information which was verified by you not only stating that you know what I purchased but also the personal info under which it was purchased.

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Go ahead and send it on over. Thanks.

Rogue said:

LOL. You won't have a true auto tune without them. Also, narrow-band sensors are only accurate at 14.7/1 AFR. Pretty worthless if you want to tune the motor to run at 13.2/1. There are several of us on the forum running wide band setups.

Here's some reading material for you bud:

http://ducatiforum.com/mechanical-technical/19084-how-does-what-does-rapidbike.html

http://ducatiforum.com/ducati-1299/22287-tuneboy-map-feature-1299-panigale-r.html

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Auto tune? with a QS?.. that tells me you have no idea how to tune these bikes. If you can tell me why I said that, I'll be impressed. Honestly.

Widebands are worthless on these bikes too. You need EGT's on a panigale. They're simple and more accurate.

Oh, and the guy with the Termi exhaust has officially backed out. Motorcycle.com has a tentative date for the 14th to dyno three bikes I'm bringing: a stock v4s, a v4s with exhaust and flash and a v4r stock. I'll have comparisons and dyno charts

endodoc said:

Anyone who wants the side by side between the stock map and what Bren delivered, PM me. Happy to share. There, we are not waiting anymore. And our legal dept will be talking to Bren in the AM regarding their business practices of sharing customer information which was verified by you not only stating that you know what I purchased but also the personal info under which it was purchased.

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I'll be holding my breath while you contact LegalZoom

teh1337ftw said:

Auto tune? with a QS?.. that tells me you have no idea how to tune these bikes. If you can tell me why I said that, I'll be impressed. Honestly.

Widebands are worthless on these bikes too. You need EGT's on a panigale. They're simple and more accurate.

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Then there are dozens of us (mostly racers) on here who are in the wrong and don't know how to tune these bikes. Please educate me on what's wrong with my setup.

It's not like RB is the only auto-tune setup with a QS. You're going to tell me that the tens of thousands of Power Commander users are in the wrong too? Come on Troy.

there are a lot of different way to skin cats not all wrong and all right.

Rogue said:

Then there are dozens of us (mostly racers) on here who are in the wrong and don't know how to tune these bikes. Please educate me on what's wrong with my setup.

It's not like RB is the only auto-tune setup with a QS. You're going to tell me that the tens of thousands of Power Commander users are in the wrong too? Come on Troy.

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This is a V4 section discussing V4's. There is no rapid or auto tuner and if you use two widebands, what software are you tuning with?

Auto Tuners have issues with QS's because of spark cut. The auto tuner sees regular shifting or race shifting as a rich area and tries to correct. Pretty soon you have -40% and massive flat spots while riding that need to be corrected.

Just got back form my first ride with the BT flash. Bike is better everywhere and a rocket

teh1337ftw said:

This is a V4 section discussing V4's. There is no rapid or auto tuner and if you use two widebands, what software are you tuning with?

Auto Tuners have issues with QS's because of spark cut. The auto tuner sees regular shifting or race shifting as a rich area and tries to correct. Pretty soon you have -40% and massive flat spots while riding that need to be corrected.

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I wouldn't use PC auto tuner they are ..... Rapid bike and Bazzaz much better but when used to tune with them I used to turn all rider aids to stop confusion but even then you have to be carful as they start leaning out on small throttle openings

teh1337ftw said:

This is a V4 section discussing V4's. There is no rapid or auto tuner and if you use two widebands, what software are you tuning with?

Auto Tuners have issues with QS's because of spark cut. The auto tuner sees regular shifting or race shifting as a rich area and tries to correct. Pretty soon you have -40% and massive flat spots while riding that need to be corrected.

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The RapidBike Master Pro Software. They're late to the party but they'll have something for the V4 soon.

Auto Tuners have issues with QS's because of spark cut. The auto tuner sees regular shifting or race shifting as a rich area and tries to correct. Pretty soon you have -40% and massive flat spots while riding that need to be corrected.

Now I feel like you're not heeding your own advice by talking about something you don't have any first hand experience with. Those widebands are reading at something like 500x per second or around about (2mS). Shifts are around 1/5 of a second or 200ms (this is of course adjustable as well). The race module has the ability to lock in 13.1 (or any AFR I choose for that matter) via the You Tune without ever plugging in a laptop. I choose to keep it in auto adaptive mode after testing both locked and AA modes on the dyno and track. The problem with locking in the AFR on a dyno is that it's impossible to account for the RAM air effect that happens at speed. This can have as much as a 0.3 AFR effect. On the track the difference was night and day between fixed and AA.

Most of my miles are done at COTA these days with my work schedule. I can post a video if you'd like of footage of me dragging V4's at WOT on the back straight if you'd like (not turning this into a V4 vs V2 pissing match). I think this would indicate that there aren't really any flat spots in my map.

There are several Moto America racers using the RB setup. Pretty sure EDR uses them exclusively on their premium builds as well. I'm not in here to plug RB. I'm just saying it does in fact work as it should. As you mentioned, they don't even offer anything for the V4 yet. For the record, I wouldn't touch a Power Commander with a ten foot pole.

teh1337ftw said:

Oh, and the guy with the Termi exhaust has officially backed out. Motorcycle.com has a tentative date for the 14th to dyno three bikes I'm bringing: a stock v4s, a v4s with exhaust and flash and a v4r stock. I'll have comparisons and dyno charts

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why dont you dyno the stock (no akra) V4S with and without BrennTunning? wouldnt this give the members what they really want, real side by side data? Dynoing a base V4S and a then a V4S with an Akra (i assume full exhaust) with a tune isnt an apples to apples...

is there anywhere i can find an apples to apples comparison? i am sure BrennTunning has someone, somewhere, (i am also sure EDR will take you up on it) that will do a stock dyno put the tune on and dyno to see the differences for the V4

Rogue said:

Sorry to hear about your friend.

Why would a company refuse to sell their tune to an individual? Seems like there's more to the story there. It's not like Val was a one off case.

You say don't worry about the numbers but we haven't forgotten about this gem (which you all also ended up deleting).

Of course you're going to get roasted when you claim that a flash bumped up a tired 9 year old Beamer almost 40 hp and put it in MotoAmerica territory. Why aren't the guys on this forum seeing anything more than single digit gains? Because it's a canned tune no better than the Akra upmap.

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so i went through the Brentuning facebook page, and saw this video and watched it... sadly, they (someone) deleted that thread of comments on the video you speak of Rogue. So i couldnt see what transpired in those 300+ replies. I am sure it was an interesting read.

lamb00j said:

why dont you dyno the stock (no akra) V4S with and without BrennTunning? wouldnt this give the members what they really want, real side by side data? Dynoing a base V4S and a then a V4S with an Akra (i assume full exhaust) with a tune isnt an apples to apples...

is there anywhere i can find an apples to apples comparison? i am sure BrennTunning has someone, somewhere, (i am also sure EDR will take you up on it) that will do a stock dyno put the tune on and dyno to see the differences for the V4

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That will be dependent on how much dyno time we are allowed. Adding tunes and resetting adaptations will take 4-6 pulls more on each bike I do it with. I will ask and see if they're interested but it's ultimately up to motorcycle.com. Worst case scenario I have friends that have a dyno about an hour away that I can use to test exactly that.

teh1337ftw said:

That will be dependent on how much dyno time we are allowed. Adding tunes and resetting adaptations will take 4-6 pulls more on each bike I do it with. I will ask and see if they're interested but it's ultimately up to motorcycle.com. Worst case scenario I have friends that have a dyno about an hour away that I can use to test exactly that.

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do one set up this way, stock vs with brentuning... this is where the idea if its worth $1300 comes in to be honest. Them have the dyno pulls with the other bikes for fun as that is all they will be.

But again, either you, or brentuning should reach out to EDR Performance for a good non-biased 3rd party dyno pull on products if this cant be accommodated.

I have the V4R with the Arka, I like it but am always willing to do more. But 1300 is a bit steep if it doesnt do much.. that is why I (like others i am sure) would like to see some real world, real time data for this. I loved my RapidBike Race on my 1199 (i am blessed to live close to yamans shop for easy tech and installs) but i am always in the market for something great

lamb00j said:

so i went through the Brentuning facebook page, and saw this video and watched it... sadly, they (someone) deleted that thread of comments on the video you speak of Rogue. So i couldnt see what transpired in those 300+ replies. I am sure it was an interesting read.

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Don't worry lamb, my friends at ASO knew that Bren had a history of deleting anything that wasn't in line with their agenda so they uploaded screenshots.

https://imgur.com/a/ZOYtT1m?third_p...Wa2hw3XVXFBVRVAFycoWAwWr5Heqp9oNaJGUdmZFk#_=_

Good luck getting through it all. I stopped reading when Troy called the Graves MotoA R1 a MotoGP bike.

Think we need to rename this thread BrenTuning Flash Development (Trash Talk) instead.

I have been debating on the Brentune flash for my 1299. I had it on my 2015 s1000rr and it felt more powerful but was disappointed when I only gained 2hp on the dyno. I would like to see a side by side stock vs flash (flash being the only mod) before I spent the money on this after reading all this.

Mrdcook2 said:

I have been debating on the Brentune flash for my 1299. I had it on my 2015 s1000rr and it felt more powerful but was disappointed when I only gained 2hp on the dyno. I would like to see a side by side stock vs flash (flash being the only mod) before I spent the money on this after reading all this.

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you need to see what it really is before you spend $1300 and i agree. Your 'butt' dyno will always lie especially when you need to justify to yourself that you just spent $1300, so if i spent that much and got 2hp gain, i would be livid, but the placebo would be telling me its the best thing i have ever done.

I know i have my dyno sheets from my 1199 with my rapid bike plugged in and not plugged in (same time on the dyno). And on the positive, it was good and i felt it was money well spent.

Rapid bike doesnt have a system for the V4R yet, so i am open to other options.