DQS not working on downshifts

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Describe what you mean by excessive pulsing in the rear ABS. When using the rear brake you feel pulsing (ABS intervening) in the pedal? Interesting about the race setting (well, really turning off ABS to the rear) affecting the DQS. If you go to a higher ABS setting, that turns the rear on again, does the DQS go back to intermittingly not working when downshifting?
 
My bike is still at Boulder Motorsports undergoing a series of troubleshooting steps that so far have yielded no results (change in shift arm angle, different QS, different shift rod types/lengths, back to original throttle, many more tire calibrations). When I went to test ride it, the bike wouldn't downshift from 4th at the 1st attempt which wasn't a good sign. While on the test ride I also changed ride modes and turned off rear ABS then reset tire cal to default, powered off for a few, then did a live tire cal again. Bike still won't downshift from 6 or 5 at all, and 4th maybe half the time. BTW, we have perfect voltage readings to the ECU in all positions up/down (verified by myself and the technician).
The really odd thing is that 3-2-1 is absolute butter 100% of the time with no issues at all, and upshifts are perfect. Explain to me how this can possibly be a mechanical issue if that is the case.

At this point it looks like I may have to return the bike to its fully original state over the Winter and see what I get. If it still is not functioning properly I may have to put in a lemon claim, or find out more about aftermarket harnesses/ECUs
 
skidrumr said:
My bike is still at Boulder Motorsports undergoing a series of troubleshooting steps that so far have yielded no results (change in shift arm angle, different QS, different shift rod types/lengths, back to original throttle, many more tire calibrations). When I went to test ride it, the bike wouldn't downshift from 4th at the 1st attempt which wasn't a good sign. While on the test ride I also changed ride modes and turned off rear ABS then reset tire cal to default, powered off for a few, then did a live tire cal again. Bike still won't downshift from 6 or 5 at all, and 4th maybe half the time. BTW, we have perfect voltage readings to the ECU in all positions up/down (verified by myself and the technician).
The really odd thing is that 3-2-1 is absolute butter 100% of the time with no issues at all, and upshifts are perfect. Explain to me how this can possibly be a mechanical issue if that is the case.

At this point it looks like I may have to return the bike to its fully original state over the Winter and see what I get. If it still is not functioning properly I may have to put in a lemon claim, or find out more about aftermarket harnesses/ECUs
Click to expand...
Did you change the gearing at all?
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Did you change the gearing at all?
Click to expand...

Yes.. 2 1/2 years ago, and it ran like a champ until recently. Unless the factory programming is so specific that it wants something different for half the gearbox, you would think an issue with gearing would affect all downshifts all the time. But yes, I will be swapping back to the impossibly tall stock gearing to rule that out as well. At this point it will be no stone unturned.
 
Calibrate (or try) then reset the transmission adaptives. If you're close to the original gearing it'll work. You may want to do the quickshifter adaptive reset but do the transmission adaptives separately first. Such ......... I realized I had a bad pressure season (leans the motor out too much at high altitude 8K ft +). So I re-initiate the o2 sensors, but since my OBDSTAR checked out I couldn't reset the O2 sensors adaptives. Aw so what. So I go out for a ride and as I get south of town (at 55 mph in the fast lane) the motor simply turns off. Gotta love TUV.
 
skidrumr said:
Yes.. 2 1/2 years ago, and it ran like a champ until recently. Unless the factory programming is so specific that it wants something different for half the gearbox, you would think an issue with gearing would affect all downshifts all the time. But yes, I will be swapping back to the impossibly tall stock gearing to rule that out as well. At this point it will be no stone unturned.
Click to expand...

What has happened between 2 1/2 years ago until when it first started failing? More to the point, was there or could there of been a software update applied by the dealer?

I suggest going to stock gearing, reset tire calibration to default, then performing a new one.
 
in my world i can ask the obd this two questions:
does the sensor akt? does it blip and how much?
...and in the background sugar mountain is glowing in the sunrise.

but, 2 channel handheld scopes are affordable these days.

please don't throw stones to me, mabye a worn clutch have influence to this.
i have no explanation for that, but a buddys problems were gone with a new (dry) clutch.
 
Steven31371 said:
Stock throttle or aftermarket?

I had the domino quick turn throttle and it worked fine the 18 months, then it crapped out and caused some issues
Click to expand...

I did have the Domino, which I think was creating the CELs and bike bricking into limp mode initially, but it's back on the stock throttle assembly now. That was the 1st troubleshooting step.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
What has happened between 2 1/2 years ago until when it first started failing? More to the point, was there or could there of been a software update applied by the dealer?

I suggest going to stock gearing, reset tire calibration to default, then performing a new one.
Click to expand...

Hard to say regarding the updates, dealer doesn't typically divulge but the bike has only been in for the break-in service (years ago) and again 1 year ago with these issues.. and I specifically asked for no updates but who knows. Mechanically & electronically the bike has been in the same state since Summer '21. I am hearing great things about the '23 DQS programming, which I understand is now available as an update for the older bikes, and I wonder if it would overwrite whatever is the ghost in my machine
 
chris16 said:
in my world i can ask the obd this two questions:
does the sensor akt? does it blip and how much?
...and in the background sugar mountain is glowing in the sunrise.

but, 2 channel handheld scopes are affordable these days.

please don't throw stones to me, mabye a worn clutch have influence to this.
i have no explanation for that, but a buddys problems were gone with a new (dry) clutch.
Click to expand...

Myself, the dealer tech and current tech at BMS all confirm clear voltage signals for up/down to & from all gears, regardless the shifter used (stock, Cordona, 3x Translogic). They have a dyno at BMS, and they are able to watch the ECU inputs/outputs while running it through its paces; effective signals from the shift sensor do not appear to be the issue. But without seeing the actual program live, it is just guessing what differences in state the ECU is seeing (or actively looking for & not getting) from when the DQS works perfect and when it doesn't. That's what I don't like, not seeing behind the curtain. It's like troubleshooting a PLC strictly by what the I/O is indicating
 
When my Streetfighter was doing the exact same thing yours is doing it was the clutch sensor…the little contact bit that says the clutch is engaged wasn’t getting a good connection.

I had a very similar problem later when I put the throttle spacer into into a stock throttle, that little aftermarket plastic bit that takes the slip out of the stock throttle. Putting that in there threw off the throttle position diagnostics.
 
Reset the adaptives. The DQS learns the voltages etc. then functions in an acceptable range as defined by when the adaptives were set and with what gearset. The transmission adaptives learns the gearing (by speed, rpm and gear) and functions in a range which was defined by when the adaptives were learned. If they were last set was at the factory then it wants 16/41 and a 200 section tire. This is not like the earlier OBD where disconnecting the battery resets the adaptives. My point about the O2 sensors above is the adaptives stop adjusting and only function in the range originally learned. Therefore with the O2 sensors it went to the previously learned range and the last time the ECU saw O2 sensors it had the stock cat on it. The arrows wanted more fuel the ECU saw the O2 high limit, turned the engine light on and the motor off. This happened when the motor moved from the enrichment cycle to normal operation (south of town). I thot this might happen because I didn't reset them but expected limp mode. BTW if you feel you need a quick throttle what you really want is a more aggressive ETV map. The maps as delivered are in essence cammed; before 50% they give you less than your request and after 50% greater. Every map including the race ones. They go out of their way to dampen small throttle openings (slop in the throttle, the first 10% of the throttle opening produces no response (zero mapped until 11%) and as a back up the torque limiting map allows no torque until 6% open (5% is 0 mapped). I'd be careful about updating the software. More nannies yet in the euro 5 software suite.
 
baggerman said:
Reset the adaptives. The DQS learns the voltages etc. then functions in an acceptable range as defined by when the adaptives were set and with what gearset. The transmission adaptives learns the gearing (by speed, rpm and gear) and functions in a range which was defined by when the adaptives were learned. If they were last set was at the factory then it wants 16/41 and a 200 section tire. This is not like the earlier OBD where disconnecting the battery resets the adaptives. My point about the O2 sensors above is the adaptives stop adjusting and only function in the range originally learned. Therefore with the O2 sensors it went to the previously learned range and the last time the ECU saw O2 sensors it had the stock cat on it. The arrows wanted more fuel the ECU saw the O2 high limit, turned the engine light on and the motor off. This happened when the motor moved from the enrichment cycle to normal operation (south of town). I thot this might happen because I didn't reset them but expected limp mode. BTW if you feel you need a quick throttle what you really want is a more aggressive ETV map. The maps as delivered are in essence cammed; before 50% they give you less than your request and after 50% greater. Every map including the race ones. They go out of their way to dampen small throttle openings (slop in the throttle, the first 10% of the throttle opening produces no response (zero mapped until 11%) and as a back up the torque limiting map allows no torque until 6% open (5% is 0 mapped). I'd be careful about updating the software. More nannies yet in the euro 5 software suite.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree- updates potentially trade known issues for new ones.
Between myself & current tech we've fully reset all adaptives many times over, with them resetting gears as well.
I'm trying to get my hands on the electrical schematics so I can see everything related to the QS circuit, but the answer really lies in the program logic and that seems to be unobtanium.
 
skidrumr said:
Yes, I agree- updates potentially trade known issues for new ones.
Between myself & current tech we've fully reset all adaptives many times over, with them resetting gears as well.
I'm trying to get my hands on the electrical schematics so I can see everything related to the QS circuit, but the answer really lies in the program logic and that seems to be unobtanium.
Click to expand...
The wiring diagram is in the service manual, but it's pretty basic. +5V supply, ground, and signal. The signal wire goes straight to the ECU.

Did you change the gearing? If so, change back to stock. Set tire calibration to default. Test QS.
 
Look at it this way. Ducati cannot allow an inappropriate throttle blip (for fear it will induce a crash). The sensor values must be within a defined range to ensure this and the ECU must know the percentage rpm change when downshifting (that's the point of the adaptives). Therefore, outside of the tire wear range you need to recalibrate (Somewhere around 5% change it seems). Since your failure seems to concern only the higher gears then the failure is related to the higher gears somehow. When mine quits working no gear is allowed to downshift. Ducati has a hard lock on the gearing which depends on model (panigales will allow a higher gearset). On my bike I can recover DQS function all the way to 16/36 by resetting adapatives. When I went to 17/36 it can no longer be reset (and the odometer is off by the percentage change). If all the sensors have been checked out OK (which I doubt) then if the gearing is in the specified range it can be reset (unless maybe the program is corrupted somehow). So do dump all the adaptives then do a gear relearn immediately before the bike is run ridden again.
 
baggerman said:
the ECU must know the percentage rpm change when downshifting
Click to expand...
I’m not sure this is how the ECU and DQS works. Logically, your final drive ratio shouldn’t change the gearbox ratios. They’re 2 separate systems. My theory is that the tire calibration only applies to DTC/DSC calculations (it probably determines tire aspect ratio) and is probably a check on speed sensors. Resetting gear adaptives probably baselines the QS voltage noise. Granted I have no proof or documentation about this. Plus OP has reset everything and he’s still having a problem. Though it’s unclear if he’s brought the bike back to stock QS or final drive ratio.

My guess is that there’s a wiring loom or connector problem from the ECU to QS or that the QS is bad (unless he put on a new stock QS). Or his GPS is bad.

Sounds like a nightmare.
 
The ECU has to understand the spread from gearing changes relative to rpm which is different as you change gearing (the percentage change from the gearbox is the same but the wheel speed isn't). The DQS resides in the ECU and has no troubleshooting capability (doesn't throw a code). When you move beyond limits it stops working. It is important to allow the bike to learn the gearing by running it up and down the gearbox while riding before using the DQS. If the software isn't corrupted and the sensor values are in range than it works. The adaptive reset clears previously learned and stored values. When the bike is first ridden all this is learned and stored. When you reset it has to learn values again. If mine were not working only in the higher gears I'd be looking at whatever value the ECU sees from the shift position. An error can probably be caused by a high resistance connection that moves the sensor value out of range. The real issue is the technicians can't fix it. Reseat every connector, clear all the adaptives, do a gear position relearn, ride it awhile without using the DQS. Since this can be a safety issue it has more sophistication than everyone seems to think. Took me awhile to understand this but I can change gearing all the way from 15/42 to 16/36 and still get the shifter to work.
 

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