Dyno War Graphs

craig bush · May 12, 2022

Very interesting. Surprises me that in the overlaid comparison, the R is making a bit more power in the upper mid-range while the base is making scant more top end.

Vbreeze · May 12, 2022

Ok engine basics. Are there not a list of other aspects to the R that make it a better track weapon or not? I actually haven't side by sided them in a year I can't remember but, R must be lighter? Better brakes - all that sort of thing? The other thread I saw touching on feel. That's the more interesting info to me. Which one gels with you better and why? Which tips in easier, which one flows threw curves better, gives you more confidence? Interesting note on style of riding I think you also touched on. If you love the super high revs of not. To me seems to depend on the track and how your gearing matches. If you've got a track with some spots are that awkward revs that are ideally between gears, a higher revving bike would be easier to deal with...? or maybe it's the higher torque at lower revs? Maybe it's also preference. What's your take on all that?

TomFoolery · May 12, 2022

I do not believe R has any better componentry than the S. The magic in the R is the geometry and chassis setup that was race track oriented (obviously since its a homologation model) than street bike oriented. The difference in power delivery character is more a function of having to be 1000cc due to regulations.

Paul G · May 12, 2022

Pretty sure that this is a rabbit hole! But the R is 1000 for homologation purposes. The extra 105cc is free money for the base, the R has to rev to make the same power. As VB mentions, ultimately its about the whole package, does it get stopped, turned and on the power quicker thus translating to a quicker laptime. Looking forward to the side by side on track once the base is dialled in.

endodoc · May 12, 2022

TomFoolery said:
I do not believe R has any better componentry than the S. The magic in the R is the geometry and chassis setup that was race track oriented (obviously since its a homologation model) than street bike oriented. The difference in power delivery character is more a function of having to be 1000cc due to regulations.

Does the R not differ internally from the S like it’s predecessor? Titanium rods, light crank, titanium intake and exhaust valves? The R also has a different frame

RODOLFO · May 12, 2022

endodoc said:
Does the R not differ internally from the S like it’s predecessor? Titanium rods, light crank, titanium intake and exhaust valves? The R also has a different frame

yes, it has better engine internals, but the base has a biggerdisplacement engine, that with a tune, gets it to perform equal or better than the R ENGINE

and the frame, rear link and other suspension bits, that were better than the 19 S MODEL

but the 22 base model, has the same improvements and more

Vbreeze · May 12, 2022

Ya the softwear is supposed to be another world on the 22 according to one single user I spoke with at Mugello who has V4's '18, 19R. 2020S, and 2022S. He said the '22 is a leap of improvements, less tiring, better handling, easier to ride all around and was super happy with it.
???
These things come down to preference in a big way. But it's interesting to hear how it all comes together.

RODOLFO said:
yes, it has better engine internals, but the base has a biggerdisplacement engine, that with a tune, gets it to perform equal or better than the R ENGINE

and the frame, rear link and other suspension bits, that were better than the 19 S MODEL

but the 22 base model, has the same improvements and more

endodoc · May 12, 2022

Yep same nonsense. Again at this level just buy the components and do it right from the beginning. Trying to make a race car out of a street car, just build the damn race car and be done with it.

Phl · May 12, 2022

R is for racing homologation.

it you want to win trackdays or suck a bit less at racing you get the S and mod that.

and then go to Starbucks to tell the milfs that it’s faster than the R

A016738 · May 12, 2022

or...

Buy a base model, get a hold of one of Phil's evil sounding yet stock looking exhausts, private label it as a Ducati Performance part and tell the Starmilfs it's a special performance edition....

Mick1976 · May 12, 2022

Yeah them days are long gone on here we got bunch clowns that can't figure out oil level or what sealant to use on cases they definitely won't be able to do any bike builds.

endodoc said:
Yep same nonsense. Again at this level just buy the components and do it right from the beginning. Trying to make a race car out of a street car, just build the damn race car and be done with it.

RickD996 · May 12, 2022

endodoc said:
Yep same nonsense. Again at this level just buy the components and do it right from the beginning. Trying to make a race car out of a street car, just build the damn race car and be done with it.

Sweet Endodoc, I'm glad that's something you enjoy doing

For me, when I throw my bike through the gravel trap, I want to be able to replace it in time for the next round. So the advantages of a road bike, with high availability, are high on my list of priorities.

Bruce Wayne · May 13, 2022

endodoc said:
Does the R not differ internally from the S like it’s predecessor? Titanium rods, light crank, titanium intake and exhaust valves? The R also has a different frame

Yes the R has different cams as well as altered cam timing, i found the S (1100) easier to ride on track days but the older ones have a Lower swingarm pivot the newer models have the non adjustable pivot the same height as the R std setting. I think the main advantage of the R is it's extra RPM in Wsbk where the engines are more highly tuned and the extra 2500 rpm definitely helps with gearing.

Paul G · May 13, 2022

endodoc said:
Yep same nonsense. Again at this level just buy the components and do it right from the beginning. Trying to make a race car out of a street car, just build the damn race car and be done with it.

Horses for courses, no one here is a serious top racer with a massive budget chasing ever diminishing returns. A sorted R or S out of the box is all 99.9% of people can use/need.

Vbreeze · May 13, 2022

Haha best short answer Phl!
I'm going to go win some track days because I am not getting paid to do this yet, not sure if you guys are. If I get it more sorted, then I'll move into the build out version super customized with more time for that. Now I spend my time riding.

Phl said:
R is for racing homologation.

it you want to win trackdays or suck a bit less at racing you get the S and mod that.

and then go to Starbucks to tell the milfs that it’s faster than the R

Jolly Roger V4 · May 13, 2022

Now you tell me, dammit all that wasted money I spent on decals and lighted leathers!!!

endodoc · May 13, 2022

Paul G said:
Horses for courses, no one here is a serious top racer with a massive budget chasing ever diminishing returns. A sorted R or S out of the box is all 99.9% of people can use/need.

Yea you kind of missed the point. I see this .... all the time. Guy buys a bike, gets the bug, starts buying stuff, before you know it, the engine, frame and swingarm are all that’s left of what he over paid at the dealership and he’s having a fire sale for all the takeoffs on eBay. Have a damn plan.

If you know you are going to build a “track only” bike don’t put 35k in Ducati’s pocket and take a huge loss changing parts. Get a motor and a frame and build to suite. You’ll get what you want and you won’t have a garage full of OEM crap you can’t sell. I’m dumbfounded buy guys who know they are parts junkies buying showroom bikes. Really poor capital planning.

Alkhater · May 13, 2022

endodoc said:
If you know you are going to build a “track only” bike don’t put 35k in Ducati’s pocket and take a huge loss changing parts. Get a motor and a frame and build to suite. You’ll get what you want and you won’t have a garage full of OEM crap you can’t sell. I’m dumbfounded buy guys who know they are parts junkies buying showroom bikes. Really poor capital planning.

And you’ve done this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

endodoc · May 13, 2022

Alkhater said:
And you’ve done this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure have. I have built from the ground up every bike I have ever owned. I build my own motors, machine my own parts, design and build my own electronics. Let’s see what you have going on Chief.