MotoGP 2023

Paul G said:

What a load of bollocks

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If you can't see clearly put the big MM pom poms down eh.....

Loony888 said:

So you accept that everything in the world of MotoGP has changed, with the notable exception of MM himself. To claim MM would be winning if he was on a Duke is a bold claim, he's older, 3 full years older and he's had to recover from a significant injury with his broken humorous bone and he also seems intent on giving himself permanent Diplopia. His reflexes aren't what they used to be and if he is so brilliant why then does he need a tow to get into Q2 at every round?
His desperation to prove he's still capable of winning looks like it's causing some strange decisions, his outright obnoxious attitude to his fellow competitors notwithstanding, stating publicly he was prepared to cause a red flag to save his Q2 position in LeMans.
The so called psychological edge the commentators seem to prattle on about is a joke, he openly ......... when things don't go his way and in the same breath he states proudly that he not only doesn't help his team mate he deliberately misdirects them, is it any wonder the Honda is a dog....

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In regards to health, for sure #MM93 is carrying a handicap. The Diplopia is the most concerning. Any reasonable person would have already hung up the leathers.

But, we are talking about #MM93, an evolution of Rossi, in all his @sshole glory. He’s always been an unreasonable inconsiderate prick on track, so why change now. He’s never been a team player, but is clearly significantly more capable than any of his Hondamates.

In regards to his speed, he’s still got it. It’s clearly the bike that’s holding him back, like Q and the M1. We’ve also seen this before with Stoner from his 3rd season on at Ducati. The minute Casey jumps ship, Championship.

So yeah, #MM93 may be a broken, inconsiderate prick, but I have no doubt that him on a KTM or Desmo = Championship.

Paul G said:

What a load of bollocks

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A brilliant retort.

Notec said:

In regards to his speed, he’s still got it. It’s clearly the bike that’s holding him back, like Q and the M1. We’ve also seen this before with Stoner from his 3rd season on at Ducati. The minute Casey jumps ship, Championship.

So yeah, #MM93 may be a broken, inconsiderate prick, but I have no doubt that him on a KTM or Desmo = Championship.

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I'm not convinced. That's pretty dismissive of the rest of the field. For sure he'll do better, but there are other very talented riders already on those platforms who have a history of winning on them who have a say in who wins the championship.

Mark marquez has never gone a race weekend (that I remember) without crashing. usually he did it in practice or qualifying . He has heart , he has talent. I would say that he won championships when the talent field was no match for him . and now they are. I doubt on equal bikes the results would be any different. the young guns are poppin up at a rate in which marquez's talent isn't able to handle. he'd crash on a ducati same as the honda IMO . Marquez is a one trick pony meaning his skillset doesnt lend itself to developing a bike unless the bike is built around his way of riding. Ktm for example right now may have the best group of riders to help their program get the fastest best handling bike, but the ktm is no where near the tech fat bike the honda is. I think marquez going to another brand would be fun to watch and I would love to see it and be wrong , but I think the younger riders would still be sending him to the gravel or also finished land. he has to stop crashing no matter what bike he is on.

Macattack said:

Mark marquez has never gone a race weekend (that I remember) without crashing. usually he did it in practice or qualifying . He has heart , he has talent. I would say that he won championships when the talent field was no match for him . and now they are. I doubt on equal bikes the results would be any different. the young guns are poppin up at a rate in which marquez's talent isn't able to handle. he'd crash on a ducati same as the honda IMO . Marquez is a one trick pony meaning his skillset doesnt lend itself to developing a bike unless the bike is built around his way of riding. Ktm for example right now may have the best group of riders to help their program get the fastest best handling bike, but the ktm is no where near the tech fat bike the honda is. I think marquez going to another brand would be fun to watch and I would love to see it and be wrong , but I think the younger riders would still be sending him to the gravel or also finished land. he has to stop crashing no matter what bike he is on.

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I finally have to agree with something positive about 93 listening to a Salvadori rant. Marc is inspiring how he doesn't flinch or give up despite living most weekends in the kitty litter. I still think he's an over hyped ......., but there is one ray of sunshine.
And ya, the gift VR46 has given Italy, Ducati, and the world of racing is a thing of exception and will keep on giving into the foreseeable future. I can't foresee another big series of 93 wins.
He's run into the same thing the rest of the greatest riders have run into. The next class of kids willing to send it on faster machines while they are on their super developed bike that's not all that in comparison and getting older at a faster rate that ever before. Ago was ranting they are too fast now and it's becoming a sport less and less about the human aspect. That's a little true unfortunately - that said, it's still a huge part pilot. Hardly comparable to F1. eg.

The old Mugello was 80% back. The blow up dolls with 93's face printed on them were passed around to abuse. Every time 93 came on the big screens, the hills lit with Booos and hisses. One surprising thing was seeing the usual sea of MUGIALLO VR46 Tshirts and flags, yellow smoke bombs. Guys form Poland, Germany, from everywhere were in on it. I really didn't expect to see that. Vale has become more than a person, he's gone on to become a team, a style, a way of life. It's rather amazing.

Loony888 said:

So you accept that everything in the world of MotoGP has changed, with the notable exception of MM himself. To claim MM would be winning if he was on a Duke is a bold claim, he's older, 3 full years older and he's had to recover from a significant injury with his broken humorous bone and he also seems intent on giving himself permanent Diplopia. His reflexes aren't what they used to be and if he is so brilliant why then does he need a tow to get into Q2 at every round?
His desperation to prove he's still capable of winning looks like it's causing some strange decisions, his outright obnoxious attitude to his fellow competitors notwithstanding, stating publicly he was prepared to cause a red flag to save his Q2 position in LeMans.
The so called psychological edge the commentators seem to prattle on about is a joke, he openly ......... when things don't go his way and in the same breath he states proudly that he not only doesn't help his team mate he deliberately misdirects them, is it any wonder the Honda is a dog....

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Would MM be winning on a different bike, lets put it this way, how do you think he would go on Peccos bike? Your assessment of his mental and physical state is pure speculation, none of us know the whole story but his ability is still there and you would have to be wilfully blind not to see it. The reason he looks for a tow is that he cant do it on his own with the Honda, in Mugello he said that P7 was where the bike is. What far more astute and experienced people that you or I say is that he is over riding to compensate for the problems and that while he may pull off an amazing qualifying, during the race the bike is on the absolute limit and beyond so crashing is more or less inevitable if he wants to stay with the leaders. As for your comment about deliberately causing a red flag, what he said was:
“When I passed [the pit board] on the straight, I was P8,” said Marquez.“So, then, I was pushing; I said, ‘OK, I will try to improve the laptime, because like this I will be in QP2, if not it will be a yellow flag and they will not improve’.”
You may not like it and what do i know, maybe you believe every kid should gets a prize for turning up because they are all winners? But this is racing, if thats what the rules permit- pushing the limits to the very end, and you want them changed then you better start writing to Dorna since plenty of riders end sessions early with red flags. I dont care what the talking heads say for the most part especially when they play junior psychologist, I just observe what he does.

Loony888 said:

If you can't see clearly put the big MM pom poms down eh.....

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Im hardly a fanboy, dont have the T shirt or the helmet, dont wear the onesie , I am really impressed with Acosta but right now its the Pecco show all the way.

Paul G said:

Would MM be winning on a different bike, lets put it this way, how do you think he would go on Peccos bike? Your assessment of his mental and physical state is pure speculation, none of us know the whole story but his ability is still there and you would have to be wilfully blind not to see it. The reason he looks for a tow is that he cant do it on his own with the Honda, in Mugello he said that P7 was where the bike is. What far more astute and experienced people that you or I say is that he is over riding to compensate for the problems and that while he may pull off an amazing qualifying, during the race the bike is on the absolute limit and beyond so crashing is more or less inevitable if he wants to stay with the leaders. As for your comment about deliberately causing a red flag, what he said was:
“When I passed [the pit board] on the straight, I was P8,” said Marquez.“So, then, I was pushing; I said, ‘OK, I will try to improve the laptime, because like this I will be in QP2, if not it will be a yellow flag and they will not improve’.”
You may not like it and what do i know, maybe you believe every kid should gets a prize for turning up because they are all winners? But this is racing, if thats what the rules permit- pushing the limits to the very end, and you want them changed then you better start writing to Dorna since plenty of riders end sessions early with red flags. I dont care what the talking heads say for the most part especially when they play junior psychologist, I just observe what he does.


Im hardly a fanboy, dont have the T shirt or the helmet, dont wear the onesie , I am really impressed with Acosta but right now its the Pecco show all the way.

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Of course it's speculation, but it's speculation based on current events.

Your assessment is also speculation, but based on a riders performance three years ago and since significant injury to his arm and multiple surgeries as well as repeated bouts of Diplopia which is a form of concussion, an ABI isn't that far away for MM if he hasn't one already, which is a sad situation but a definite possibility.
Has he forgotten how to ride a bike? no, of course not, but time catches up with us all and while he's still only 30 his injuries, surgeries and time off the bike (including development of it) have knocked the edge off his performance. Yes he needs a better bike, all the Honda and Yamaha riders do, but while Q throws everything at it and rides at the very edge of what can be achieved he's not falling as often.

If MM is genuinely serious about making the Honda work he needs to accept that it's a dog and use this year to develop it, games like looking for a tow and chasing a good grid spot is fine if you're in with a real shot but he says he expects to finish 7th in the sprint and then bins it in the full race, what's the point? The season is gone for him, and while he's being a complete dick in practice and qualifying then binning it in the races he's not gathering any data or spending enough time on the bike when it really matters to provide valid feedback. Sure he's frustrated, but while he thinks he can turn the bike inside out to get a result, he obviously can't over ride it and that's a combination of all the reasons above in my opinion.
Rinz won at COTA on the Honda, an anomaly for what is a very average bike this year, but Rinz loves the place and gets on well there, lets see how MM does at Sachsenring this weekend where he has been all conquering forever, the bike isn't good enough to win a championship, but if the circumstances are right (Rinz + COTA) it can win a race, will it happen with MM + Sachsenring? i'm thinking it just might, but don't be surprised if he bins it, again.

look at Hondas broken riders, MM is performing extremely well in comparison.The bikes are approaching F-1 levels now and flatter the riders. Aero and rideheight has made everyone fast to the detriment of rider skill i.e. its mostly bike and minimal rider just like F-1. Ducati have 8 bikes gathering data and the power of Audi behind them. Plucky underdog is a myth, its more like a steamroller. Suzuki departed, Yamaha is on the way out and Honda could be next quite easily. Theyve done it before, and like any sport the name of the game is participation so Dorna need to navigate carefully because the Ducati cup is bad for the show, same in WSBK

I hear you @Paul G. I have the same concerns. It’s annoying though because the Japanese manufacturers have dominated the sport for years. Heaven forbid Ducati wins a couple of championships…..

Paul G said:

look at Hondas broken riders, MM is performing extremely well in comparison.The bikes are approaching F-1 levels now and flatter the riders. Aero and rideheight has made everyone fast to the detriment of rider skill i.e. its mostly bike and minimal rider just like F-1. Ducati have 8 bikes gathering data and the power of Audi behind them. Plucky underdog is a myth, its more like a steamroller. Suzuki departed, Yamaha is on the way out and Honda could be next quite easily. Theyve done it before, and like any sport the name of the game is participation so Dorna need to navigate carefully because the Ducati cup is bad for the show, same in WSBK

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yeah, LOL ducati has out-Honda'ed Honda.

.... Honda, they have been the bullies in Gp racing forever, the "might" of HRC used to dictate the racing, they went to 4 strokes because Honda lobbied for it as there was no point developing 2 strokes anymore, true, but still, doesn't belay the fact that Honda had the Brilliant RC213V waiting ready to go and the other manufacturers had to play catch up for years. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

And you're on serious drugs if you think Moto GP is anywhere near the likes of F1 when it comes to rider talent vs spec. Like in all sports the cream rises to the top, the fastest guys find their way into the fastest cars, sure Verstappen couldn't dominate in a HAAS like he does in the Red Bull but has talent (and i can't stand him either!) which was obvious and he has the best car because of it, I don't see Perez dominating the same way.... Same with Hamilton at AMG MB, Bottas didn't dominate in it, Russell hasn't either

MotoGp is so closely contested these days, yes they're much more advanced, with aero and all sorts of gizmos that personally i don't like, a control ECU, a slipper clutch and a smooth, clean fairing would be much better IMO but it is what it is, and yes Ducati is dominating, MM is the last of the old guard of rider, someone obviously gifted that takes what he was given and rode away from the rest, i doubt we will ever see that kind of domination again because the field is so close these days and the riders are so evenly matched.
It's what Dorna and the FIM wanted of course, and the old days weren't perfect, what with Michelin and their special hand made tyres flown in overnight for privileged A riders in the eighties and nineties, and then the likes of Rossi getting something no one else had access to.....

I don't think the bikes flatter the riders either, would you do 366kph on a straight with a kink and a dip/rise into the braking area? saying that is disrespectful to the entire field.

Now what does any of that have to do with Marc Marquez being way past his best, not knowing when to settle for points and binning it everywhere? oh! yes, the bike is so good it flatters him..... I don't like the guy and i do watch the racing hoping to see him bin it, but at the same time i'm genuinely frustrated for the guy, having said that i'd love to see him change teams, because i'm pretty confident he would be just as reckless, just as arrogant and just as prone to bin it, why? because he wants to lead by 2 seconds after the first lap, he wants to show that he's as dominant as he once was, and those days are past him, even on a Ducati, KTM or Aprilia.

And, unlike Rossi, Who moved from HRC Honda to Yamaha to prove Honda were wrong about it being the bike and not him, and to prove Biaggi wrong who couldn't win a chook raffle on the Yamaha because he claimed it was rubbish MM will move out of sheer desperation to keep his failing riding career going, and he thinks he's better than Rossi.... Laugh i do! LAUGH!!!!!

Just throwing out this wild idea. Yes, .... Honda, but what if they were all on the same bike like Moto3 or MotoE? Then it's all about the pilots. Ok, well that would suck for R&D in some regards as competition would drop to 0. Let's see what happens with MotoE.

Probably suck but we have that in 2 and 3. I agree with Pecco on this we need faster and slower bikes, with the factory teams slugging it out and the rookies doing their time to earn a top spot. The point is that the sport is defined by rules which can and should be changed to improve the racing and safety.

The problem now is the bikes are so fast and easy to get to within 1/10s across the grid, and lets get real WGAF if they are doing 360 or 340 on the straights. The point is that rider talent should be weighted more than the manufacturer. The Japanese have been caught napping after 50 years at the front! So good work by the euro Manus.

As for MM;

Jorge Lorenzo claims that Marquez is the only rider who isn’t scared of crashing.

“I may be,” Marquez said. “He said it – and I also feel I’m never scared. “Maybe sometimes I’m taking too much risk but I cannot ride a bike worrying about the crashing.

“It is the only way I know to ride a bike fast.

“I will say I have 20 [crashes] a year. Maybe 250 crashes [in total]?”

The injuries, the under-performing bike and the barren spell while a new era of champions have won their first titles have changed Marquez’s mentality.

“I can understand that achievement in finishing second,” he said. “So when I have good news now I will celebrate even more than before. “Winning used to be normal. But now it’s not like this. “So after some very difficult years it’s important to celebrate the good achievements because you never know if you will get injured again tomorrow or next month.”

Whatever you think of him, he's a Champion. Was reading about Novak Djkovichs achievements today, not bland and perfect like Federer but more unlikeable as time goes on but what a class act on court. Same as MM, totally driven to win.

MM and Zarco incident is mind blowing. If MM’s bike ripped Zarco’s bike in half so easily imagine what it could have done had it hit Zarco?!

Marquez directly blamed Zarco for getting hit by himself. you cant make this stuff up

Macattack said:

Marquez directly blamed Zarco for getting hit by himself. you cant make this stuff upView attachment 50141

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I read that and I was hoping it was a bad translation or ESL confusion, but nope. MM did in fact blame Zarco.

Macattack said:

Marquez directly blamed Zarco for getting hit by himself. you cant make this stuff upView attachment 50141

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Yep, and to add insult to injury he ignored Zarco, lying on the track and ran back to the pits. Even Crafar was not impressed with his lack of empathy, what a total self absorbed cock, 5 crashes so far, karma? maybe, but we reap what we sow, and he seems completely unable to ride within the limits of what the bike is capable of....