MotoGP 2023

Paul G said:

His podcast with Peter Bom is very good, they rate MM but refuse to speculate on whats next for the lad. Honda is in a massive hole but its a behemoth, if it starts getting serious about aero etc it has unlimited resources to make it happen. Soichiro would not let this stand if he was alive; “If Honda does not race, there is no Honda.”

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This is the Ducati forum. The Honda forum is down the street.

Unlimited resources, no. Honda sales have been plummeting for years, following the trend of everything not EU bikes. They're core mass market who are loosing jobs by the droves and loosing on the "make everything VIP/gourmet-greed-as-a-subscription-service," markets and new youth buy iPhones not vehicles. I would make the guess they're doing some pretty big reinventing of what they're up to in the world. I do not have 100% confidence they'll throw out a big surprise amazballz race bike next year. Strategic guess continued: They'll continue their racing presence in a see-how-it-goes for a couple years with measured investment. If what Jack was saying is true about their engineering teams, it'll be a year or two before they get anything right and if they are indeed in the position described, they are hanging Mr. Marquez out to dry and will dump him pretty soon. They've hit a cost level that's going to get the bean counters X'ing him. Listen for the English Dorna commentators to start throwing a little pepper of 93 doubt into their usual "the king of this and that" ......... They'll be building up the exit in scriped theatrical style as usual.
I bet Honda will throw some competition at the EMoto scene which is a no-brainer with aggressive market expansion.
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Paul G said:

I really like Jorge Martin's style, they say hes got glass bones so hope he's not another Pedrosa in that regard. But compared to Pecco, its hard to say FB has depth and momentum.

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Ya +1 I'm betting Pecco this year, though Martin is getting rather interesting. This year's rookies are pretty ok, but next year I bet will be another thing all together. Some choke when they get to MotoGP, and some rocket. Acosta is going to be very interesting to watch. He's got a level of bike handling skills that seem to be a head above his current field though there are a few seriously fast guys. Competition next year I think will be even tighter. Dang it's so great to see 3-5 guys battling for 1st, and many of them changing track to track.

As far as I can tell the yamaha front end weight and feel advantage is gone . they never had any motor advantage that was honda and ducati. weight distribution I4 advantage is completely gone with the areo and ridehigth device. all the stuff you guys are saying about hondas internal turmoil is news to me I havent been a fan of honda since the early 90's and yamaha went mental in the early 2000's . I'm pulling for ducati and KTM. and a little soft spot for ape.

Human nature proves as timeless and steadfast as ever. People tend to not tolerate uncertainty well, preferring instead to overlay certainty whenever possible. This is especially true for people with relatively little experience and knowledge - myself included.

What percentage of Honda’s riders were on the grid this weekend? And then another had multiple crashes (the same rider who rode an earlier iteration of the same bike from 16th to 3rd in half a race after running off track)? Hmmm…

And of the 4 Honda riders, the only one who finished the most recent race is also historically the slowest? And he finished next-to-last, beating only a second year rider on a satellite bike? I wonder if any of that means anything? Hmmm…

Nah, probably not!

Marquez is just a loose canon and people on an internet forum have more insight with less data than a multiple championship winning rider and his entire team… and all of their engineers… and all of the journalists covering the sport.

And aero development being the only meaningful advancement in a racing series predicts awesomeness.

craig bush said:

Human nature proves as timeless and steadfast as ever. People tend to not tolerate uncertainty well, preferring instead to overlay certainty whenever possible. This is especially true for people with relatively little experience and knowledge - myself included.

What percentage of Honda’s riders were on the grid this weekend? And then another had multiple crashes (the same rider who rode an earlier iteration of the same bike from 16th to 3rd in half a race after running off track)? Hmmm…

And of the 4 Honda riders, the only one who finished the most recent race is also historically the slowest? And he finished next-to-last, beating only a second year rider on a satellite bike? I wonder if any of that means anything? Hmmm…

Nah, probably not!

Marquez is just a loose canon and people on an internet forum have more insight with less data than a multiple championship winning rider and his entire team… and all of their engineers… and all of the journalists covering the sport.

And aero development being the only meaningful advancement in a racing series predicts awesomeness.

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ahh sarcasm, the lowest form of wit......

you know it's just a bunch of guys "bench racing" right? we all have our opinions and whether we're right, wrong or ridiculous none of it actually means anything, it's just a fun topic and as fans we're allowed to have favourite riders to like and dislike.
Thinking we know what we're on about is half the fun, but in reality there's so much that goes on that's top secret (because they want no one to know) the journalists are also speculating for the most part.

Don't take things too seriously, who knows, MM might "recover" from his bruised ego and complete a race one day soon, the commentators carry on that it's 600 or so days since he won a race, ....! lets just see him actually finish one, will that make you happier?

MM was following the Beast around looking for a tow….

I cannot believe the way people are blaming Bastianini for this . I was an accident and both riders were looking to get back on the racing line. marq just lost his peripheral vision on the rider in front of him . this happens all the time on dirt bikes and bicycles road race bikes. usually at the motogp level the skill these guys have avoids this kind of mistake. Mm should just take up snowboarding .

I predict MM will crash out by lap 5 in the race Sunday.

Macattack said:

I cannot believe the way people are blaming Bastianini for this . I was an accident and both riders were looking to get back on the racing line. marq just lost his peripheral vision on the rider in front of him . this happens all the time on dirt bikes and bicycles road race bikes. usually at the motogp level the skill these guys have avoids this kind of mistake. Mm should just take up snowboarding .

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MM accepted responsibility for the accident and apologized to Bastianini. I don’t know how anyone can still think the accident is Bastianini’s fault.

With all this ”looking for a tow“ nonsense, Dorna might have to institute single lap qualifying

MM should be apologising.....
No one should care about his injuries or his excuses, A Espargaro, F Quartararo, M Oliveriera, all have injuries yet the commentators keep making excuse for M Marquez, .... off!

Bastianini lost the front so he deliberately kept off the racing line and left the other riders to do their thing, but MM being the total cock that he is decided to stick to Bastianini's rear wheel (........ shady tactics as usual) and because he was trying to stay so close to get a tow and Bastianini was looking to see where the other riders were so he could slot back in and possibly find a spot to circulate and get another go at a fast lap this MM ....... rides into the back of him! and of course there's no penalty for irresponsible riding! WTF???? there have been plenty of penalties for much less???

Admit it, you have a poster of him on the ceiling above your bed

SuperDomestique said:

With all this ”looking for a tow“ nonsense, Dorna might have to institute single lap qualifying

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Towing is something they all do or have done at times even the holier than thou saints on the fastest bikes. Basically it means following a quick rider around on a hot lap to mimic their lines and benefit from their slipstream. Well done it often gets the towee a few 1/100ths of the tower's lap time and leapfrogs them up the qualifying order. If it was outside the rules then fair enough but its not. You still have to be at least as good as the guy you're following.

MM declared unfit and won’t race, and the rest of the field won’t have to worry about him crashing and taking them out too

The powers that be will need to put better cameras up at the final chicane. Binder barely crossed the line if he crossed it at all.

DCPanni said:

MM declared unfit and won’t race, and the rest of the field won’t have to worry about him crashing and taking them out too

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Do you even watch the sport? Someone has done the numbers:

Honda: 16 DNFs from 54 Starts - 29.6%
Aprilla: 14 DNFs from 64 Starts - 21.9%
Ducati: 23 DNFs from 125 Starts - 18.4%
KTM: 9 DNFs from 62 Starts - 14.5%
Yamaha: 2 DNFs from 32 Starts - 6.25%

Alex Marquez 6
Juan Mir 6,
Vinales has 5
Miller 4
Olivera 4.

In other words there's a lot of crashing going on and at Assen alone the attrition rate in the GP was eye opening indeed, these riders wouldnt have had to worry about Marquez because they managed quite well without his assistance

Fabio Di Giannantonio
Iker Lecuona
Enea Bastianini
Maverick Viñales
Johann Zarco
Fabio Quartararo
Jack Miller

to add, quite a few of those DNF's were are result of incidents involving riders other that your boy

Macattack said:

The powers that be will need to put better cameras up at the final chicane. Binder barely crossed the line if he crossed it at all.

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Pretty sure the Stewards have access to very accurate info that we dont, Binder isnt complaining, he takes it on the chin and moves on. One of the better riders on the grid on every level.

Macattack said:

The powers that be will need to put better cameras up at the final chicane. Binder barely crossed the line if he crossed it at all.

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He was barely over the line, and gained nothing in doing so. Martin was further over than Binder and you could see his bike shake as he went off and back onto the rumble strip.

bp_SFV4 said:

He was barely over the line, and gained nothing in doing so. Martin was further over than Binder and you could see his bike shake as he went off and back onto the rumble strip.

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Half the tire width is barely off?

I see it differently. The justification for the rule, as I understand it, is that the green is simulated grass. There is inherent risk (loss of traction and possibly even crashing) to cutting a natural grass corner that disincentivzes exceeding track limits. Because a simulated grass corner can be cut without the same inherent risk, the riders are counseled that the incentive to not exceeding the simulated grass track limit is a long lap penalty on the 3rd offense. May not be the best solution, but it seems reasonable to me.

I'm not choosing to die on this hill, but want to learn and discuss.

I look at it as if the rider gained an advantage, but wasn't forced into it, then penalty. What did Binder gain? Martin was much further over and didn't get a penalty.

Early in a race they are all bunched up so track limits are a bit loose, which makes sense.

Even if that portion was actual grass, with the speed those guys were running it would have made no difference.

Espargaro had an interesting quote in which he said (paraphrased) he didn't want to pass Binder as much as he wanted to push him into making a mistake, which paid off.