MotoGP 2023

Ducati Forum

Help Support Ducati Forum:

Loony888 said:
Yep, and to add insult to injury he ignored Zarco, lying on the track and ran back to the pits. Even Crafar was not impressed with his lack of empathy, what a total self absorbed cock, 5 crashes so far, karma? maybe, but we reap what we sow, and he seems completely unable to ride within the limits of what the bike is capable of....
Click to expand...

Simply every track in the worlds rules!
1 leave the crash scene to the marshals
2 when exiting pit lane the onus is on the person joining the track to enter a clear and safe space.
He does have a point! That said they are all as ruthless as one another and look to steal an inch in everything. That’s why they are where they are!

His bike package is a ....... at the moment but that’s a different conversation.
 
His warm-up crash looked brutal.

I can't imagine he'll finish out his contract at this rate.

1687108940147.png
 
new rule : if marky marq is coming down the straight you cannot exit the pit area . problem solved . 🙃 iirc he crashed one or two times per weekend in 2018 & 2019 . his crashing is just catching up to him . I thought when they cut the ends off of his clavicals he was going to eventually be broken beyond repair. I just didn't know it was going to be mentally broken . you cannot crash 5 times in one weekend and blame the bike. he is twisting the roundy round tube past the point where he sees Jesus. or he has lost his feel for the throttle or he has a brain tumor or he is trying to kill himself to collect insurance money. who knows , right now alpinstars is making some chinese kid build him new race suits night and day. honda is trying to figure out a way to mount outriggers on the rc , Kawachi is sharpening his seppuku sword. and dorna/fim are thinking of ways to cover the guy in bubblewrap.
either way I've been saying his crashing is a real problem since before 2020 and he keeps proving me right.
 
Macattack said:
new rule : if marky marq is coming down the straight you cannot exit the pit area . problem solved . 🙃 iirc he crashed one or two times per weekend in 2018 & 2019 . his crashing is just catching up to him . I thought when they cut the ends off of his clavicals he was going to eventually be broken beyond repair. I just didn't know it was going to be mentally broken . you cannot crash 5 times in one weekend and blame the bike. he is twisting the roundy round tube past the point where he sees Jesus. or he has lost his feel for the throttle or he has a brain tumor or he is trying to kill himself to collect insurance money. who knows , right now alpinstars is making some chinese kid build him new race suits night and day. honda is trying to figure out a way to mount outriggers on the rc , Kawachi is sharpening his seppuku sword. and dorna/fim are thinking of ways to cover the guy in bubblewrap.
either way I've been saying his crashing is a real problem since before 2020 and he keeps proving me right.
Click to expand...

lol, The facts are that Honda and Yamaha have been left behind by the Europeans, Team Honda has filled a casualty ward and Team Yamaha with all of 2 bikes are a second a lap slower than last year. Their bikes are ....

Honda developed a bike to suit his style, a bike with fabulous front end feel and incredible braking, problem was that there were no other aliens who could ride it as well as he could. After his crash, which btw some are saying was the most incredible ride in the GP era, he was ...... and we know the story so its not worth repeating. Then the bike was developed in a direction to suit the other riders, but its DNA was wrong and you got a frankenmonster that only worked in a very narrow window and is useless under brakes and has no feel. At the same time Ducati and friends solved their turning issues and made a bike so planted, easy to go fast on and a full generation ahead with aero and ride height that the Yam and Honda were just eclipsed. The Ducati is incredible, watching Jorge and Pecco on the waterfall, just wow!

Its important to grasp the context, in GP every 1/1000th counts and a bike that is 1/2 a second of the pace is a dead donkey. MM's skill is actually part of the problem, he can ride around the shitbox's problems until he cant. Such is his desire to win he will push beyond what its capable of. He might get a tow and slipstream into the front row but the bike cannot maintain race pace with the others without overriding, so while the others are on 99% MM is 100 all the time the means zero room for error. This has nothing to do with his mental state apart from one thing; he is a winner and a true champion and hes not out there to .... spiders. Thats why he has all the WC's and you and I have none. Call it madness, psychosis or whatever, but he is not going to fade away to the back row.

I respect that, I also dont give a .... about elbows out, mind games or whatever people on the sidelines think, none of the GP riders are angels, in fact you could say they would all put the boot in to each other if they could get away with it.

We are not playing tiddlywinks here

 
Paul G said:
lol, The facts are that Honda and Yamaha have been left behind by the Europeans, Team Honda has filled a casualty ward and Team Yamaha with all of 2 bikes are a second a lap slower than last year. Their bikes are ....

Honda developed a bike to suit his style, a bike with fabulous front end feel and incredible braking, problem was that there were no other aliens who could ride it as well as he could. After his crash, which btw some are saying was the most incredible ride in the GP era, he was ...... and we know the story so its not worth repeating. Then the bike was developed in a direction to suit the other riders, but its DNA was wrong and you got a frankenmonster that only worked in a very narrow window and is useless under brakes and has no feel. At the same time Ducati and friends solved their turning issues and made a bike so planted, easy to go fast on and a full generation ahead with aero and ride height that the Yam and Honda were just eclipsed. The Ducati is incredible, watching Jorge and Pecco on the waterfall, just wow!

Its important to grasp the context, in GP every 1/1000th counts and a bike that is 1/2 a second of the pace is a dead donkey. MM's skill is actually part of the problem, he can ride around the shitbox's problems until he cant. Such is his desire to win he will push beyond what its capable of. He might get a tow and slipstream into the front row but the bike cannot maintain race pace with the others without overriding, so while the others are on 99% MM is 100 all the time the means zero room for error. This has nothing to do with his mental state apart from one thing; he is a winner and a true champion and hes not out there to .... spiders. Thats why he has all the WC's and you and I have none. Call it madness, psychosis or whatever, but he is not going to fade away to the back row.

I respect that, I also dont give a .... about elbows out, mind games or whatever people on the sidelines think, none of the GP riders are angels, in fact you could say they would all put the boot in to each other if they could get away with it.

We are not playing tiddlywinks here

Click to expand...


You're pretty well right with that, but you lost me near the end there.... He was a winner, the circumstances you describe make sense, yet for some reason not to MM himself, anyone who throws a bike away 5 times in one weekend is clearly in trouble, winners don't go on a self destructive tantrum in the belief they can will the thing to work. Honda were scrounging bits off Mir's bikes he was destroying them at such a rate.

Determination is one thing but when even Honda say "enough" it's obvious he's off the rails, it looks to me that he's preparing to bail out, on Honda if another manufacturer will have him, or maybe even completely which would be a loss for the MotoGp circus but might be the best thing for his long term health.
Interestingly.... there was no tow truck nonsense this round, he went out there with the determination to just get it done, obviously in full belief he could just make the bike work for him at his favourite and most successful track, I'm still convinced his diplopia isn't completely gone and he relies heavily on riders in front for his cues in corners, even if i'm completely wrong about the diplopia he still heavily relies on others to help him get a lap in P/Q and of course in a race he's always right there following another rider anyway.

As for his behaviour towards Zarco, well, his behaviour is arrogant, narcissistic and likely sociopathic, which to be fair isn't rare among elite athletes but his complete disregard and lack of any empathy for a competitor who he just cleaned out and left lying possibly injured on the track..... disgraceful, irrespective of how the paddock in general is perceived to behave.
And yeah, i know the rider leaving the pits is responsible for entering the track safely, that's a given, the incident was unfortunate and no ones fault really, just an unfortunate racing incident, spectacular though.
 
Paul G said:
lol, The facts are that Honda and Yamaha have been left behind by the Europeans, Team Honda has filled a casualty ward and Team Yamaha with all of 2 bikes are a second a lap slower than last year. Their bikes are ....

Honda developed a bike to suit his style, a bike with fabulous front end feel and incredible braking, problem was that there were no other aliens who could ride it as well as he could. After his crash, which btw some are saying was the most incredible ride in the GP era, he was ...... and we know the story so its not worth repeating. Then the bike was developed in a direction to suit the other riders, but its DNA was wrong and you got a frankenmonster that only worked in a very narrow window and is useless under brakes and has no feel. At the same time Ducati and friends solved their turning issues and made a bike so planted, easy to go fast on and a full generation ahead with aero and ride height that the Yam and Honda were just eclipsed. The Ducati is incredible, watching Jorge and Pecco on the waterfall, just wow!

Its important to grasp the context, in GP every 1/1000th counts and a bike that is 1/2 a second of the pace is a dead donkey. MM's skill is actually part of the problem, he can ride around the shitbox's problems until he cant. Such is his desire to win he will push beyond what its capable of. He might get a tow and slipstream into the front row but the bike cannot maintain race pace with the others without overriding, so while the others are on 99% MM is 100 all the time the means zero room for error. This has nothing to do with his mental state apart from one thing; he is a winner and a true champion and hes not out there to .... spiders. Thats why he has all the WC's and you and I have none. Call it madness, psychosis or whatever, but he is not going to fade away to the back row.

I respect that, I also dont give a .... about elbows out, mind games or whatever people on the sidelines think, none of the GP riders are angels, in fact you could say they would all put the boot in to each other if they could get away with it.

We are not playing tiddlywinks here

Click to expand...


I don't disagree with you completely ,and I could be wrong too. but if you are saying marq cannot sit back and take third place . he is overriding his bike. yep and the crashing is making it imposssible for honda to learn anything from his lap times . crashing this much is bad for the development of the team. a team player would take the third place use the data to make improvements and go back to work on monday. the mark marquez plan is to keep crashing bikes until the magic formula fairy drops some pixy dust on his bike and poof the reality you and I have been living in physics and all is completely turned around. Btw Yamaha will never get the I4 to work in this setting IMO . they need a v4.
 
Ooooo, that's harsh.
Miller is merciless: “Why do they suck? It’s his fault, too. They fired 99 percent of the engineers to accommodate them, and now they’re screwed and can’t even get a lap in. It’s his fault,” are the words reported by Marca.
“They pay you to race, not to be a princess and complain about the bike. You should shut your mouth and do what you have to. We at KTM are the only ones who don’t complain about our bikes. In fact, we try to do something about the problems we have. The others throw tantrums and repeat that their bikes suck. So it’s too easy.” -Jack Miller
 
Vbreeze said:
Ooooo, that's harsh.
Miller is merciless: “Why do they suck? It’s his fault, too. They fired 99 percent of the engineers to accommodate them, and now they’re screwed and can’t even get a lap in. It’s his fault,” are the words reported by Marca.
“They pay you to race, not to be a princess and complain about the bike. You should shut your mouth and do what you have to. We at KTM are the only ones who don’t complain about our bikes. In fact, we try to do something about the problems we have. The others throw tantrums and repeat that their bikes suck. So it’s too easy.” -Jack Miller
Click to expand...

Jack must’ve missed the era where KTM .... on the careers of a multitude of riders including Olivera, Smith, Zarco, Lecuona, Petrucci, Gardner, Fernandez
 
SuperDomestique said:
Jack must’ve missed the era where KTM .... on the careers of a multitude of riders including Olivera, Smith, Zarco, Lecuona, Petrucci, Gardner, Fernandez
Click to expand...

KTM have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to rider talent, they sign them up young through the red bull rookies etc.

They offered Oliveira a factory bike in the Tech3 team, he declined
Smith, not good enough at this level, they kept him around as a test rider for a bit didn't they?
Zarco threw his rattle out of the pram and walked away mid season, he wasn't happy but it was his decision to leave
Lecuona, not good enough, he ran his course, he's doing ok in superbike, not exactly setting the world on fire though
Petrucci rode well for them after Ducati let him go, but really, as talented as he is, and everybody loves the guy, he's too big, a byproduct of his days as a copper.
Gardner, now he did get screwed over, no one knows why but apparently he spoke out of school too much, one year in motoGP isn't enough to learn the bike properly, The Yamaha superbike isn't doing him any favours so far either
Fernandez, overrated, KTM did him a favour letting him go, to Aprilia no less and he has been as uninspiring on that, the other Fernandez has outshone him everywhere, he's a dud.

It's a high stakes business, perform or you're gone, the days of log contracts like Pedrosa on the HRC Honda are over, there's too much young talent coming through, and while Ducati have easily the best bike KTM have the best talent locked up moving forward for the most part, if they get that bike figured out properly and get someone like Acosta to get it to work there's your next dominant combination.

Hopefully Martin wins the championship on the Pramac bike this year first though.....
 
Martin had a good weekend. He’s high in the points because he consistently finished races, but I remember hearing a commentator say it was his first race win in 33 or 34 races. I do wonder if Ducati management are kicking themselves for not signing him when they had the chance.
 
Honda’s problem is Puig. Can’t stand the guy. Seems like a real ........ If Honda give Kawauchi the space he needs to right the ship, I foresee the same success he brought to Suzuki.

Which brings us to Yamaha’s problem: its engineering. Riders have been complaining about power for what seems decades. Bike turns great but gets lost on the straights. This is where they basically should’ve hired the entire Suzuki squad.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Martin had a good weekend. He’s high in the points because he consistently finished races, but I remember hearing a commentator say it was his first race win in 33 or 34 races. I do wonder if Ducati management are kicking themselves for not signing him when they had the chance.
Click to expand...

Last year the Pramac guys were saddled with the 2023 engine that Miller and Bagnaia didn't like as it was too aggressive, Ducati managed to homologate enough improved engines for the season for their factory team but Pramac had to make do with the engine rejected by #43 & #63, which is the main reason Martin and Zarco struggled.

This year they have the same engines and chassis, Martin is on a full factory contract, wages support the lot, so aside from red leathers and bike he's a factory rider, gets the updates with the other two as well apparently. I hope his run of form continues all year, Bagnaia did ok against Q on the flawed Yamaha, but Martin, on the same bike.... he might have his hands full.
 
I really like Jorge Martin's style, they say hes got glass bones so hope he's not another Pedrosa in that regard. But compared to Pecco, its hard to say FB has depth and momentum.
 
SuperDomestique said:
Honda’s problem is Puig. Can’t stand the guy. Seems like a real ........ If Honda give Kawauchi the space he needs to right the ship, I foresee the same success he brought to Suzuki.

Which brings us to Yamaha’s problem: its engineering. Riders have been complaining about power for what seems decades. Bike turns great but gets lost on the straights. This is where they basically should’ve hired the entire Suzuki squad.
Click to expand...


Mat Oxley reckons both Yamaha and Honda have fallen way behind the aero race, Yamaha hired a F1 engine developer which hasn't worked, crazy when as you say, all the Suzuki guys could have helped massively.....
 
Vbreeze said:
Ooooo, that's harsh.
Miller is merciless: “Why do they suck? It’s his fault, too. They fired 99 percent of the engineers to accommodate them, and now they’re screwed and can’t even get a lap in. It’s his fault,” are the words reported by Marca.
“They pay you to race, not to be a princess and complain about the bike. You should shut your mouth and do what you have to. We at KTM are the only ones who don’t complain about our bikes. In fact, we try to do something about the problems we have. The others throw tantrums and repeat that their bikes suck. So it’s too easy.” -Jack Miller
Click to expand...

Miller will never win a championship, and this article confirms my earlier point; all these guys are ruthless ........ and will put the boot in when they can get away with it. Maybe he should shut the .... up ride his awesome bike and enjoy the fact that he no longer has to suck FB dick?
 
Paul G said:
Miller will never win a championship, and this article confirms my earlier point; all these guys are ruthless ........ and will put the boot in when they can get away with it. Maybe he should shut the .... up ride his awesome bike and enjoy the fact that he no longer has to suck FB dick?
Click to expand...

His podcast with Peter Bom is very good, they rate MM but refuse to speculate on whats next for the lad. Honda is in a massive hole but its a behemoth, if it starts getting serious about aero etc it has unlimited resources to make it happen. Soichiro would not let this stand if he was alive; “If Honda does not race, there is no Honda.”
 

Similar threads

duc
EICMA 2023: Unveiling the Future of Ducati Motorcycles
Replies
2
Views
1K
panibadboy
panibadboy
BP PanigaleV4S
California Superbike School - NCM Motorsports Park
Replies
17
Views
578
spooky
S
H
SLR Tuning (my terrible experience)
2
Replies
37
Views
4K
Hok
H
duc
Ducati Double Podium at MotoGP - Buriram, Thailand
Replies
8
Views
877
Kev242
Kev242
V
Severe issues with 2023 Panigale V4R. Need help.
6 7 8
Replies
156
Views
8K
Lefty
Lefty

Register CTA

Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.

Recent Discussions

Back
Top