New Panigale V4 is ugly?

Paul G said:

What's not to love about the 25, in many respects this is a non conversation, if you are on the cusp of buying a new litrebike or upgrading it's a no brainer.

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I don't know man. It's good and brings a lot of cool neat features but it better do all that and more. With the price creep and what they're asking for a S model, let alone to put an exhaust on, it better have some cool tricks up it's sleeve. An S model with the Akra system is now $42,595.00 without labor to install it, dealer fees, or taxes. I mean, yikes...compared to 2021, that same cost would be $34,195.00.

If you took that $8,400 and invested in classes and track days you'd likely ride around the outside of someone on a 2025.

thorny said:

I may be wrong on this, but OEM Stylema brakes with some race pads are good enough to brake like Toprak and go over the front wheel. WSBK brakes are probably just better at dissipating heat and maybe feel and consistency to some degree hence safer for top level competitors. I did run Brembo T-drive rotors for a little bit with stock calipers, but felt no difference whatsoever to OEM rotors. They did make a cool clicky-clack noise when rolling the bike around which I liked.

1-2 second is significant for someone running pace within 10 seconds of a pro rider on a two-minute lap. For someone slower by 20 second or more - not at all. My 2 cents.

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I think most stock brakes can toss you over the bars, or if more talented, a nice rolling stoppie. You dont need Stylema with race pads for that- although I'm sure you'd have to pull a tad less hard. I think for your rotors, going to iron would have made a significant difference, but if its not a dedicated race bike, probably not a great choice.

I agree that 1-2 seconds for a talented track day person is significant if they are really that close to a legit pro rider time. The faster you go, the harder it is to find the time so 2 seconds at that pace would be a win, imo.


What I'm hearing from the reviews is that the bike gives them confidence. That is a huge aspect to riding, so I love hearing that. If you wanna go fast, you can't do it lacking confidence. And if the bike gives riders confidence that also equals more fun, which is why most of us ride, so I think that would be a great attribute.

thorny said:

Was this done before with the previous model with dyno results and sound test by any chance?

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Not by me but maybe by one of my customers

DAN_HALEN said:

Strange it worked on you for the last generation but not this one?

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25 bike is marginal gains. My argument all this time is that the 22 and 25 aren’t significantly different when it comes to performance, it looks worse, and this bike’s costs are out of control. 22 V4 seems to be the sweet spot. If I were to move to the 25, I’d lose $6k on depreciation, pay $3.5k more, it would only get me 1-2 sec, and an uglier bike with less character. No thanks.

Its competition has also caught up to the 25 V4. The new Fireblade is $4.5k cheaper has better ergos, better durability/serviceablility/parts availability, gets split throttles, real engine upgrades, and has experience with a DSSA.

There are some things that are just ugly. These ugly designs will always be ugly. They will not grow on us as some argue. A Panigale should produce passion and desire. This Panigale is ugly forever. It will never grow on me.

Broken egg Porsches? They never were desired on average. The only reason one might be enthusiastic about them today is if you can’t afford to buy a good one the generation before or after.

Beaver-tooth BMW? As ugly as the day they were revealed.

Remember in the 00s when all the car designers made cylindrical bulges stick out of many taillights like the end of soup cans? When did that ever look good? That detail is ugly every day of its existence.

Eyebrow Lincolns? Ugly every second since rolling off the factory floor.

Every Jeep Gladiator has the attractiveness of a hemorrhoid and always will, unless turned into a brodozer.

The 2025 will always look like a squished-faced bike that had all its teeth removed. Many of you will eventually see the emperor’s clothes, but it will remain ugly in perpetuity.

bp_SFV4 said:

I don't know man. It's good and brings a lot of cool neat features but it better do all that and more. With the price creep and what they're asking for a S model, let alone to put an exhaust on, it better have some cool tricks up it's sleeve. An S model with the Akra system is now $42,595.00 without labor to install it, dealer fees, or taxes. I mean, yikes...compared to 2021, that same cost would be $34,195.00.

If you took that $8,400 and invested in classes and track days you'd likely ride around the outside of someone on a 2025.

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The deal gets sweeter if you pick up a good used stock 22 V4S for $25-26k or one w an exhaust for $28k

If someone at Pecco’s level can gain a second then your average trackday rider should probably gain quite a bit more than that (obviously it’s harder to find improvements at that very top level).

As mentioned earlier, Chad has experience at the track and beat his PB in his first session. Nice to have the data and see where you can improve time but you’ve still got to do it and the bike seemed to give all riders a lot of confidence.

The price with exhaust will be a sticking point for some and the price is starting to get a bit silly. A base bike with forged wheels, exhaust, TPMS (I’d want that), DDA, DAVC Race Pro - about 45,000 Euros… And you still need to upgrade the suspension. If someone can’t or won’t spend that amount then there are plenty of other options. Taking money out of it, if you want the best then this would appear to be it.

The fact of the matter is that the new bike is better than the previous model - what manufacturer releases a new vehicle that isn’t better than the previous version… The rear brake feature is very cool, improving DDA (at last) and bringing brake data into it is great, I don’t doubt that chassis and swingarm improvements are significant and the consistent conclusion of the reviewers seemed to be that the bike is a big step forward and not just a minor evolution.

Improved braking systems for the guys at WDW would primarily have been to allow them to be consistent throughout the race, given how hard they use them.

Paul G said:

FFS, most people on litre bikes at trackdays are running 20 seconds of the lap record! Half of the chads who own Panis sport chicken strips a mile wide and spend most of their time polishing or adding bling to impress the Starbucks crowd. They will be the first in line to buy the latest model because of course they do. When you already have a 98% bike its amazing how fragile the ego is to allow marketing to get you to jump on the 99% bike

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I’d love to be 20 seconds off the lap record.

There’s nothing wrong with anyone buying the bike for whatever reason they want. If you can afford it then why not.

I think the point is to not get sucked into the marketing hype.

When a new product comes out and a consumer doesnt like it then they don't buy it.

When a new product comes out and people dont like it, incessantly rant about why they dont like it queuing in on subjective elements it's quite interesting.

Look at the amount of new screen names showing up in this forum since the release - what do we attribute this to? End of season peel gettign fired up about moto? I dont think so.

Also picking the S model as the reference shows what customer you are, the base is $1k more for... lets say 1 sec. Thats worth it.

If you dont like electorinics, go back to the essence get a two stroke, move to NH ride at Louden. The reality is the number 1 development part of a modern SBK is electronics period. The tricky thing for the OEMs is to provide some sort of aesthetic evolution as well, sometimes people like it sometimes they dont, who cares.

Or it’s a free world get what you want for what you want it for…

bp_SFV4 said:

I think the point is to not get sucked into the marketing hype.

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This.

I also find some of the innovation a little off putting. ABS and TC/SC/WC are one thing.because they can be tuned to save us from mistakes while not simply doing everything for us, but the auto rear brake strikes me as something else. To some extent at least, I want to hone my skill, not have the bike do everything for me.

What ideal are we pursuing - an entirely automated, risk free riding experience? Do we want to be able to just jump on a bike and run near- pro lap times without any skill? Do we want auto transmissions with launch control and a suite of electronic rider aids so sophisticated that all we have to do is whack the throttle wide open, grab the brakes at 100%, throw the bike into a corner at max lean, and let the nannies sort every aspect for us?

Is this the evolutionary course we’re on? Get on the bike with no skill, twist the throttle and get max acceleration with controlled slip, grab the brake and get and max braking with controlled lock, throw the bike into a corner and get auto max lean angle while the bike backs itself into the corner for us?

Not intending to speak definitively - juat thinking out loud.

craig bush said:

This.

I also find some of the innovation a little off putting. ABS and TC/SC/WC are one thing.because they can be tuned to save us from mistakes while not simply doing everything for us, but the auto rear brake strikes me as something else. To some extent at least, I want to hone my skill, not have the bike do everything for me.

What ideal are we pursuing - an entirely automated, risk free riding experience? Do we want to be able to just jump on a bike and run near- pro lap times without any skill? Do we want auto transmissions with launch control and a suite of electronic rider aids so sophisticated that all we have to do is whack the throttle wide open, grab the brakes at 100%, throw the bike into a corner at max lean, and let the nannies sort every aspect for us?

Is this the evolutionary course we’re on? Get on the bike with no skill, twist the throttle and get max acceleration with controlled slip, grab the brake and get and max braking with controlled lock, throw the bike into a corner and get auto max lean angle while the bike backs itself into the corner for us?

Not intending to speak definitively - juat thinking out loud.

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You mean like auto-blipping in cars removing the need to heel/toe.

Slipper clutches were probably viewed as removing some of the skill as well, along with quick shifters, etc, etc.

The rear brake thing is an advanced technique as far as I'm concerned and it would certainly be interesting to feel it's effect when done correctly (which I certainly wouldn't do if I tried it myself, not to mention you really need a brake lever of some kind on the clutch side to do it effectively in both left and right turns).

You can always turn if off. Not sure why you would though. It might create a dilemma for those who like to bypass ABS though and presumably front brake caliber upgrades would be limited due to ensuring the ABS operates correctly if left in place.

spooky said:

You mean like auto-blipping in cars removing the need to heel/toe.

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Yes, just like that. I appreciate many of these innovations. I’m just thinking - surely there’s a limit, right?

craig bush said:

Yes, just like that. I appreciate many of these innovations. I’m just thinking - surely there’s a limit, right?

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Probably, although I guess it depends what you are using it for and what you want to get out of it.

I prefer my 80hp or so SportClassic on the road to either of my other bikes (not that I've ridden it this year). I love my R on the track - on the road it just seemed unhappy - frustrating and pointless.

Different horses for different courses. Personally, if I get the new bike it's certainly not going to be for road use. For road vehicles, I prefer and appreciate the sense of engagement that older and simpler vehicles provide.

I get where you're coming from though.

When they come out with the new gearbox I am sure everyone will boycott, it will def be one step too far

craig bush said:

What ideal are we pursuing - an entirely automated, risk free riding experience? Do we want to be able to just jump on a bike and run near- pro lap times without any skill? Do we want auto transmissions with launch control and a suite of electronic rider aids so sophisticated that all we have to do is whack the throttle wide open, grab the brakes at 100%, throw the bike into a corner at max lean, and let the nannies sort every aspect for us?

Is this the evolutionary course we’re on? Get on the bike with no skill, twist the throttle and get max acceleration with controlled slip, grab the brake and get and max braking with controlled lock, throw the bike into a corner and get auto max lean angle while the bike backs itself into the corner for us?

Not intending to speak definitively - juat thinking out loud.

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at the end of the day, it's still 210 hp w no cage. think we've all had a reminder recently that even great skill can't take out the risk.

think neeves or whoever said it right, at the end of the day you'll be a little less tired ... not sure the big things have changed

They made me share a room with big bubba…

Ffs!

andyb said:

They made me share a room with big bubba…

Ffs!

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The last time I had to share a sleeping space with others was when I was in the scouts… waking up to find that some clown had filled my sleeping bag with sugar…

KarlKani said:

When they come out with the new gearbox I am sure everyone will boycott, it will def be one step too far

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I’d love to try the seamless if they release it.

I’m just wondering out loud - if you could jump on a bike at your current skill level, and the bike was so autonomous it would enable you to ride a second off Bagnaia’s pace, would you want that? I don’t think I would.