New Panigale V4 is ugly?

CSV4 said:

44 teeth review on track is out

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I watched it. Actually, I thought Baron was riding rather well this time following Valia and put together a nice review. It looked like with all the data analysts there they had to work harder on the track =)

This is the better review

SuperDomestique said:

Very reminiscent of MCN‘s 2018 and 22 reviews except it’s even better and even easier to ride.

DUCATI PANIGALE V4S (2018-2019) Review | Specs & Prices

DUCATI PANIGALE V4S (2022 - on) Review

I’ll be waiting for the 2027 Panigale V4, where it will ride itself and rip laps like Pecco

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This is the first time Michael Neeves has referred to a V4 Panigale as "like a computer game" (19m 18s). 44T also called it "Germanic" iirc. Sounds similar to reviews of the newest S1KR.

Edit: I guess to me, the significance of that is Neeves has always praised Ducati's electronics in the Pani's but this is the first time he seems to refer to them in a mildly derogatory way.

KarlKani said:

This is the better review

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The interview with Carlo Maccarini was excellent.

V4Al said:

This is the first time Michael Neeves has referred to a V4 Panigale as "like a computer game" (19m 18s). 44T also called it "Germanic" iirc. Sounds similar to reviews of the newest S1KR.

Edit: I guess to me, the significance of that is Neeves has always praised Ducati's electronics in the Pani's but this is the first time he seems to refer to them in a mildly derogatory way.

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To me he seemed impressed with the 2025, but not happy about. He was mentally pleased, but uninspired. Like, the bike is faster, but the experience is less emotional. I didn't get any love or enthusiasm from him for the bike. Just a simple acceptance that it was faster. It seems worth it for anyone who is truly passionate about going faster at the track - and I should caveat that by saying big tracks, or at least mid-sized.

Also, am I the only one who thought Neevsey was a bit flat. Maybe he was having an off-day. Even before the riding he's usually more into it before he starts a review.

The fact that they were heavily supervised by a data engineer to optimize the experience is a red flag. If you think about it, in order to ride this bike fast you have to invest in DDL ($1500) and be able to decipher and apply the data. Furthermore, they had a benchmark to compare against (Valia) so they could easily find and optimize areas to improve. It’ll be much more difficult to find time without this baseline.

What intrigued me was that the bike doesn’t go faster with less electronics. Rather it just gets harder to ride.

I asked about the R at the new pani launch over here last week and the very hesitant response was no release for another 2 years. Apparently they've caught wind of potential WSBK rule changes in the mix that may or may not relate to smaller capacity engines much like GP.

SuperDomestique said:

The fact that they were heavily supervised by a data engineer to optimize the experience is a red flag. If you think about it, in order to ride this bike fast you have to invest in DDL ($1500) and be able to decipher and apply the data. Furthermore, they had a benchmark to compare against (Valia) so they could easily find and optimize areas to improve. It’ll be much more difficult to find time without this baseline.

What intrigued me was that the bike doesn’t go faster with less electronics. Rather it just gets harder to ride.

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It's a red flag? To ride the bike fast you'll have to invest in the DDL and be able to decipher and apply data? I guess the bike does suck.

Newly unveiled and never ridden bike and you think a journalist is gonna show up, the company gives them zero input or info, and then expects them to enjoy the bike all day, when they are offering bleeding-edge tech that they wont know how to optimize in the moment? What's the point of the amazing tech if no one knows how to use it?

The data is there like it would be for any bike and any rider, with someone who knows how to share data with their rider. How is this specific to this Panigale, and not applicable to ANY bike, at any track with any rider?

Who isnt going to be able to go faster on 'X' bike at 'X' track with a data guy telling them how early on the brakes they are or how they can go harder on throttle in a section they aren't confident in, comparing to a hot lap by a pro with intimate knowledge of a brand new release?

Such a weird take on the release. I'll never have the data and a data guy to coach me on all my shortcomings on track- but I think it's cool as hell those guys got that for the day. Does it make the bike look like less fun that most people wont have that experience? Not a chance. Would those guys all have gone slow without the data... C'mon.


Why would a rider go faster with less electronics on a brand new, cutting edge Super Bike?

thorny said:

I watched it. Actually, I thought Baron was riding rather well this time following Valia and put together a nice review. It looked like with all the data analysts there they had to work harder on the track =)

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He’s rather fast, despite his size. I generally prefer his reviews to Fagan’s.

I feel so last year

Red flag is probably too strong of a word. More dubious of Ducati’s marketing…. I think this bike is a technically a step forward but not as much as they’re telling us. I hope it’s a step forward. That’s progress.

I interpret this data engineer nonsense at the launch as you need to have an engineering degree to ride this bike fast rather than it being organic. You have to be told where and how to improve and if you don’t have that data you’d be none the wiser. Basically, if they didn’t have a dedicated data engineer, would they have been able to take chunks out of their lap times so easily? From the Bike World video, it sounds like he was able to best his fastest time w the 2022 bike rather quickly (tenths) but only made big chunks (seconds) after talking w data engineer. I don’t discount 4 seconds is massive. But would that have been possible w the 2022 bike if he had data acquisition and an engineer telling him where to find time? They’re churching up launch to make it sensational.

I’m just saying take all this with a grain of salt.

DAN_HALEN said:

Why would a rider go faster with less electronics on a brand new, cutting edge Super Bike?

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Electronics intervene and limit slip/power in order to maintain safety. Usually with less electronics you go faster at the expense of safety. DTC at level 10 will cut power sooner and more frequently than at 1. That’s with the 2022 bike.

Seems that the 2025 is just as fast with electronics on vs off. It’s not faster with less intervention, rather just harder to ride.

The bike is phenomenal, and this is expected from Ducati.

You gotta give them jornos some credit for their work, they all looked spent at the end of the day. To properly understands the bike and get used to it and set everything to one's liking (mechanicals, ergos and electronics) takes more than a day. Add to it having to film the content, unfamiliar track, talking to a bunch of people and then process all the info from the data guy comparing your data to the pro rider and having to improve the time. This is the one thing that stood out to me. Baron would have been munching on the refreshments, talking lots of smack with sexual innuendos and jokes on any other launch, but here they had to work.

I enjoyed watching real time telemetry on the dash of Valia's lap in Neevsey's video. The fact that Pecco can turn a lap on a production bike matching Bradl's MotoGP time is insane IMO. And yes, the electronics are there to keep everything tidy - smooth is fast. They became more refined, of course they did, and this is perhaps the biggest change on the entire bike that can help fast mortals to post better time.

thorny said:

The bike is phenomenal, and this is expected from Ducati.

You gotta give them jornos some credit for their work, they all looked spent at the end of the day. To properly understands the bike and get used to it and set everything to one's liking (mechanicals, ergos and electronics) takes more than a day. Add to it having to film the content, unfamiliar track, talking to a bunch of people and then process all the info from the data guy comparing your data to the pro rider and having to improve the time. This is the one thing that stood out to me. Baron would have been munching on the refreshments, talking lots of smack with sexual innuendos and jokes on any other launch, but here they had to work.

I enjoyed watching real time telemetry on the dash of Valia's lap in Neevsey's video. The fact that Pecco can turn a lap on a production bike matching Bradl's MotoGP time is insane IMO. And yes, the electronics are there to keep everything tidy - smooth is fast. They became more refined, of course they did, and this is perhaps the biggest change on the entire bike that can help fast mortals to post better time.

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Baron certainly seemed more focussed and Chad has ridden there a lot and improved. I think people underestimate how fast Baron is.

It was certainly helpful for them to have the data guy interpreting and helping, but it does show the value of data. Having brake data on the DDA is a big step forward and I believe it is wireless as well. It would be lovely if it connected to an iPad… I think TPMS could be really useful as well.

I’m sure the rear brake thing helped as well – a lot of them seemed to think so.

spooky said:

I’m sure the rear brake thing helped as well – a lot of them seemed to think so.

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Giving this ability to a guy who does not know how to do this is a big thing. Hard thing to learn to use well. Best learned on dirtbikes. Simply will allow you to go faster. That and the revised ergo's are the most significant things in this release IMHO.

baggerman said:

Giving this ability to a guy who does not know how to do this is a big thing. Hard thing to learn to use well. Best learned on dirtbikes. Simply will allow you to go faster. That and the revised ergo's are the most significant things in this release IMHO.

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Agreed. They certainly have a lot of data to draw upon. To make the application of this seamless is quite impressive. There’s a lot to like about the new bike.

baggerman said:

Giving this ability to a guy who does not know how to do this is a big thing. Hard thing to learn to use well. Best learned on dirtbikes. Simply will allow you to go faster. That and the revised ergo's are the most significant things in this release IMHO.

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I agree.

baggerman said:

Giving this ability to a guy who does not know how to do this is a big thing. Hard thing to learn to use well. Best learned on dirtbikes. Simply will allow you to go faster. That and the revised ergo's are the most significant things in this release IMHO.

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I had the experience of installing a left-hand operated rear brake (standard lever next to clutch) on KTM 500EXCF dirt bike and although my goal was simply to use that in hard enduro very steep terrain, I found it was super useful as a steering tool in fast twisty single track. That being said, using it on the superbike is an entirely different ball game and I think only about 1-2% of all track day riders could do.

Ergos also is a big step in the right direction IMO.

thorny said:

I had the experience of installing a left-hand operated rear brake (standard lever next to clutch) on KTM 500EXCF dirt bike and although my goal was simply to use that in hard enduro very steep terrain, I found it was super useful as a steering tool in fast twisty single track. That being said, using it on the superbike is an entirely different ball game and I think only about 1-2% of all track day riders could do.

Ergos also is a big step in the right direction IMO.

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All that dirt bike muscle memory transfers to the pavement which is a really good thing.

spooky said:

Baron certainly seemed more focussed and Chad has ridden there a lot and improved. I think people underestimate how fast Baron is.

It was certainly helpful for them to have the data guy interpreting and helping, but it does show the value of data. Having brake data on the DDA is a big step forward and I believe it is wireless as well. It would be lovely if it connected to an iPad… I think TPMS could be really useful as well.

I’m sure the rear brake thing helped as well – a lot of them seemed to think so.

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Baron posted 1:44'.44 on his first outing. Chad mentioned low 45's vs 49.3 on the 2022 bike and with some experience on this track. Alessandro Valia's time with a lot of experience on the bike and circuit was 1:40.8 in Neeves's video. Indeed, respectable from BVG.

thorny said:

Baron posted 1:44'.44 on his first outing. Chad mentioned low 45's vs 49.3 on the 2022 bike and with some experience on this track. Alessandro Valia's time with a lot of experience on the bike and circuit was 1:40.8 in Neeves's video. Indeed, respectable from BVG.

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The STANDARD 22 V4S without all the whiz bang electronics is only a second off the 25 bike which wasnt standard as Neevesy inaccurately states. The 25 RoC bikes had WSBK calipers and rotors.

For context, the lap record around Vallelunga is 1m36s which is similar to Misano. So logically the 22 V4S should only be a second a lap slower around Vallelunga than the 25 but for some odd reason it isn’t… Chad’s video implies that the 25 bike is 4-5 sec faster which is incorrect. This says that having data and a dedicated engineer buys you 3-4 secs and the bike is another second. The 20 to 22 difference was only a sec and the 22 to 25 bike follows a similar trend. It’s not as revolutionary as one might initially think.

Also it puts into perspective me being 15 sec off lap record around Laguna Seca. These professional motorcyclists are 10 sec off pace with a dedicated data engineer (Chad was 13 sec off the pace with the 22). I’m less disappointed in myself