New Panigale V4 is ugly?

When a new product comes out and a consumer doesnt like it then they don't buy it.

When a new product comes out and people dont like it, incessantly rant about why they dont like it queuing in on subjective elements it's quite interesting.

Look at the amount of new screen names showing up in this forum since the release - what do we attribute this to? End of season peel gettign fired up about moto? I dont think so.

Also picking the S model as the reference shows what customer you are, the base is $1k more for... lets say 1 sec. Thats worth it.

If you dont like electorinics, go back to the essence get a two stroke, move to NH ride at Louden. The reality is the number 1 development part of a modern SBK is electronics period. The tricky thing for the OEMs is to provide some sort of aesthetic evolution as well, sometimes people like it sometimes they dont, who cares.

Or it’s a free world get what you want for what you want it for…

bp_SFV4 said:

I think the point is to not get sucked into the marketing hype.

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This.

I also find some of the innovation a little off putting. ABS and TC/SC/WC are one thing.because they can be tuned to save us from mistakes while not simply doing everything for us, but the auto rear brake strikes me as something else. To some extent at least, I want to hone my skill, not have the bike do everything for me.

What ideal are we pursuing - an entirely automated, risk free riding experience? Do we want to be able to just jump on a bike and run near- pro lap times without any skill? Do we want auto transmissions with launch control and a suite of electronic rider aids so sophisticated that all we have to do is whack the throttle wide open, grab the brakes at 100%, throw the bike into a corner at max lean, and let the nannies sort every aspect for us?

Is this the evolutionary course we’re on? Get on the bike with no skill, twist the throttle and get max acceleration with controlled slip, grab the brake and get and max braking with controlled lock, throw the bike into a corner and get auto max lean angle while the bike backs itself into the corner for us?

Not intending to speak definitively - juat thinking out loud.

craig bush said:

This.

I also find some of the innovation a little off putting. ABS and TC/SC/WC are one thing.because they can be tuned to save us from mistakes while not simply doing everything for us, but the auto rear brake strikes me as something else. To some extent at least, I want to hone my skill, not have the bike do everything for me.

What ideal are we pursuing - an entirely automated, risk free riding experience? Do we want to be able to just jump on a bike and run near- pro lap times without any skill? Do we want auto transmissions with launch control and a suite of electronic rider aids so sophisticated that all we have to do is whack the throttle wide open, grab the brakes at 100%, throw the bike into a corner at max lean, and let the nannies sort every aspect for us?

Is this the evolutionary course we’re on? Get on the bike with no skill, twist the throttle and get max acceleration with controlled slip, grab the brake and get and max braking with controlled lock, throw the bike into a corner and get auto max lean angle while the bike backs itself into the corner for us?

Not intending to speak definitively - juat thinking out loud.

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You mean like auto-blipping in cars removing the need to heel/toe.

Slipper clutches were probably viewed as removing some of the skill as well, along with quick shifters, etc, etc.

The rear brake thing is an advanced technique as far as I'm concerned and it would certainly be interesting to feel it's effect when done correctly (which I certainly wouldn't do if I tried it myself, not to mention you really need a brake lever of some kind on the clutch side to do it effectively in both left and right turns).

You can always turn if off. Not sure why you would though. It might create a dilemma for those who like to bypass ABS though and presumably front brake caliber upgrades would be limited due to ensuring the ABS operates correctly if left in place.

spooky said:

You mean like auto-blipping in cars removing the need to heel/toe.

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Yes, just like that. I appreciate many of these innovations. I’m just thinking - surely there’s a limit, right?

craig bush said:

Yes, just like that. I appreciate many of these innovations. I’m just thinking - surely there’s a limit, right?

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Probably, although I guess it depends what you are using it for and what you want to get out of it.

I prefer my 80hp or so SportClassic on the road to either of my other bikes (not that I've ridden it this year). I love my R on the track - on the road it just seemed unhappy - frustrating and pointless.

Different horses for different courses. Personally, if I get the new bike it's certainly not going to be for road use. For road vehicles, I prefer and appreciate the sense of engagement that older and simpler vehicles provide.

I get where you're coming from though.

When they come out with the new gearbox I am sure everyone will boycott, it will def be one step too far

craig bush said:

What ideal are we pursuing - an entirely automated, risk free riding experience? Do we want to be able to just jump on a bike and run near- pro lap times without any skill? Do we want auto transmissions with launch control and a suite of electronic rider aids so sophisticated that all we have to do is whack the throttle wide open, grab the brakes at 100%, throw the bike into a corner at max lean, and let the nannies sort every aspect for us?

Is this the evolutionary course we’re on? Get on the bike with no skill, twist the throttle and get max acceleration with controlled slip, grab the brake and get and max braking with controlled lock, throw the bike into a corner and get auto max lean angle while the bike backs itself into the corner for us?

Not intending to speak definitively - juat thinking out loud.

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at the end of the day, it's still 210 hp w no cage. think we've all had a reminder recently that even great skill can't take out the risk.

think neeves or whoever said it right, at the end of the day you'll be a little less tired ... not sure the big things have changed

They made me share a room with big bubba…

Ffs!

andyb said:

They made me share a room with big bubba…

Ffs!

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The last time I had to share a sleeping space with others was when I was in the scouts… waking up to find that some clown had filled my sleeping bag with sugar…

KarlKani said:

When they come out with the new gearbox I am sure everyone will boycott, it will def be one step too far

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I’d love to try the seamless if they release it.

I’m just wondering out loud - if you could jump on a bike at your current skill level, and the bike was so autonomous it would enable you to ride a second off Bagnaia’s pace, would you want that? I don’t think I would.

craig bush said:

This.

I also find some of the innovation a little off putting. ABS and TC/SC/WC are one thing.because they can be tuned to save us from mistakes while not simply doing everything for us, but the auto rear brake strikes me as something else. To some extent at least, I want to hone my skill, not have the bike do everything for me.

What ideal are we pursuing - an entirely automated, risk free riding experience? Do we want to be able to just jump on a bike and run near- pro lap times without any skill? Do we want auto transmissions with launch control and a suite of electronic rider aids so sophisticated that all we have to do is whack the throttle wide open, grab the brakes at 100%, throw the bike into a corner at max lean, and let the nannies sort every aspect for us?

Is this the evolutionary course we’re on? Get on the bike with no skill, twist the throttle and get max acceleration with controlled slip, grab the brake and get and max braking with controlled lock, throw the bike into a corner and get auto max lean angle while the bike backs itself into the corner for us?

Not intending to speak definitively - juat thinking out loud.

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I’m having the same thought process about the electronic improvements, especially the rear braking thing. I’ve been working on using that rear brake well for a year now and finally feel like I’m decent at it, or at least good enough at using it that I understand how useful and fun it is to use.

So the rear braking system on the new bike fascinates me but also weirds me out a bit. I mean I spent a year developing a skill and now the bike does it for you???

I’m also concerned about what happens to all these electronics if you want to upgrade the spec of the Ohlins to a true track or race spec carts and rear shock that’s manual not digital adjust…we’ll see I guess. Also how finicky is the electronics system in general to seeming innocuous changes, like running a 125 versus 120 tire on the front, or removing the headlights/taillights etc.

An then there’s what I call the Kramer affect for me personally. I bought the KTM RC 8C which is a MUCH more analogue bike than even my 2020 model year 25 Anniversario 916 specifically to become a better rider, and it’s working. I was a full 7 seconds faster at Chuckwallah this last weekend than I ever was on my V4. With 100 less HP to play with. Precisely because the lower power more analogue bike is giving me ‘space’ to improve my skill.

I 100% believe riders will be a little faster in the new bike, and almost as important the new bike will beat you up less on long track days which actually makes things more fun over the long run. But you aren’t gunna grab gobs of time improvement unless YOU really refine your riding, and I’m not sure yet if the new bike and its rider aids allow the ‘space’ within it it to do so.

I’m gunna get one for sure, especially if it’s true or likely true that it’ll be 2 years for the R to come out and that may be a smaller displacement R.

But I suspect that I’ll keep riding the RC 8C 90% of the time at track, or at least until I’m in the low 1:50’s at Chuck (and that’ll be awhile ) and wip out the Ducati when I want to set a lap time using the skill I gain on the RC 8C.

craig bush said:

This.

I also find some of the innovation a little off putting. ABS and TC/SC/WC are one thing.because they can be tuned to save us from mistakes while not simply doing everything for us, but the auto rear brake strikes me as something else. To some extent at least, I want to hone my skill, not have the bike do everything for me.

What ideal are we pursuing - an entirely automated, risk free riding experience? Do we want to be able to just jump on a bike and run near- pro lap times without any skill? Do we want auto transmissions with launch control and a suite of electronic rider aids so sophisticated that all we have to do is whack the throttle wide open, grab the brakes at 100%, throw the bike into a corner at max lean, and let the nannies sort every aspect for us?

Is this the evolutionary course we’re on? Get on the bike with no skill, twist the throttle and get max acceleration with controlled slip, grab the brake and get and max braking with controlled lock, throw the bike into a corner and get auto max lean angle while the bike backs itself into the corner for us?

Not intending to speak definitively - juat thinking out loud.

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We are being automated away. Everywhere. The electronics will become so prevalent that soon what? Squids in shorts with knee pucks (elbow)? The electronics when added to a decent skillset is a good thing. Added to no skillset? I like you struggle with this. Steven's comment is perfect, " I spent a year developing a skill the bike now does it for you".

craig bush said:

I’d love to try the seamless if they release it.

I’m just wondering out loud - if you could jump on a bike at your current skill level, and the bike was so autonomous it would enable you to ride a second off Bagnaia’s pace, would you want that? I don’t think I would.

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I would be grabbing the brakes and crying…

No matter what electronic aids there are, you’ve still got to ride the thing and overcome what’s between your ears, aside from technique, etc.

baggerman said:

We are being automated away. Everywhere. The electronics will become so prevalent that soon what? Squids in shorts with knee pucks (elbow)? The electronics when added to a decent skillset is a good thing. Added to no skillset? I like you struggle with this. Steven's comment is perfect, " I spent a year developing a skill the bike now does it for you".

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It probably does it better as well.

craig bush said:

I’d love to try the seamless if they release it.

I’m just wondering out loud - if you could jump on a bike at your current skill level, and the bike was so autonomous it would enable you to ride a second off Bagnaia’s pace, would you want that? I don’t think I would.

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Exactly, I mean the thrill aspect of riding these bikes at speed is cool and all, but what keeps me coming back track day after track day is the chasing of me doing it a little better each time.

@Steven31371 That is an impressive time improvement.

It would be interesting to see how much of that transfers over when you are on a litre bike.

Steven31371 said:

Exactly, I mean the thrill aspect of riding these bikes at speed is cool and all, but what keeps me coming back track day after track day is the chasing of me doing a little better each time.

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I agree, and it is surprising how you get used to the straight line speed and acceleration.

spooky said:

@Steven31371 That is an impressive time improvement.

It would be interesting to see how much of that transfers over when you are on a litre bike.

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Yeah I was thinking about that too and am tempted to put my V4 back into track spec and see lol…but overall I’m still pretty slow in the grand scheme of things so I’ll wait.

Which by the way is why I took my V4 out of track spec, so I wouldn’t be tempted by it too easily and jump back on it…that power is addictive haha

Phl said:

Not by me but maybe by one of my customers

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With the astronomical cost of the full exhaust these days, the option you are talking about can get some traction, but will need a proper post with the sound, weight saving and power before and after. If you can offer 80% of gains with decent sound at a fraction of the cost, market could be there.