New Panigale V4 is ugly?

Yamaha jsut came out with a 2025 R1 if anyone wants something boring with some wings
Engine // chassis still great - and dare I say they took a page out of Ducati book and used BREMBO brakes and master...WOWOWOW

Every single lowside is going to need wing replacement

bp_SFV4 said:

I don't know man. It's good and brings a lot of cool neat features but it better do all that and more. With the price creep and what they're asking for a S model, let alone to put an exhaust on, it better have some cool tricks up it's sleeve. An S model with the Akra system is now $42,595.00 without labor to install it, dealer fees, or taxes. I mean, yikes...compared to 2021, that same cost would be $34,195.00.

If you took that $8,400 and invested in classes and track days you'd likely ride around the outside of someone on a 2025.

Click to expand...

Hi bp_SFV4.

I'm not really contesting what you are saying, but we've just gone through 35% inflation. So, that's not price creep, its good ole .gov spending inflation. $34,195 x 1.35 (35% inflation) is actually $46,163. $42,595 is ONLY 24.5% inflation. The cost of the bike in real money is actually down from what it should be, but don't fret, it will jump to equalize the rest of the way soon.

RocketSFV4 said:

ONLY 24.5% inflation

Click to expand...

The "ONLY" part is hilarious. Did ones pay/small business profit increase by 24.5% in the same or slightly time frame?

I'm sure the inflation situation will normalize, the fed dropped the interest rate by .5% with more drops coming. Which seems typical going into an election cycle where they want to retain the incumbent, but I digress.

I'm not trying to blow my nut on a bike considering that for track riding there's many more expenses that go into it. Be it track time, training, gear, transportation, hotel, etc.

If one is operating in the left right limits of a typical upper middle class budget, $43K on the bike alone doesn't make sense.

Not shitting on the new bike at all. If my garage was empty, it's what I would get. It's leaps and bounds above its competitors. But, if you have a sorted out Ducati in your garage now, and skill and track time investment make the most sense, is it the logical buy? I don't think so.

I still kind of want one.

bp_SFV4 said:

Did ones pay/small business profit increase by 24.5% in the same or slightly time frame?

Click to expand...

I got a 25% raise in 2023 and another 4.5% this year

KarlKani said:

Yamaha jsut came out with a 2025 R1 if anyone wants something boring with some wings
Engine // chassis still great - and dare I say they took a page out of Ducati book and used BREMBO brakes and master...WOWOWOW

Click to expand...

Brembo MC and Stylema... they have finally sorted out the braking!

You'd want a load of spare wings...

Any idea what a Race or GYTR comes out at with decent (not silly money) suspension?

bp_SFV4 said:

But, if you have a sorted out Ducati in your garage now, and skill and track time investment make the most sense, is it the logical buy? I don't think so.

I still kind of want one.

Click to expand...

Exactly this.

Paul G said:

The argument against the new bike appears to be down to personal taste, value for money (a non sequitur when you buy a Ducati) and that the upgrades are not that significant or they are unnecessary for the individuals riding experience. None of that matters to Ducati who are a motorcycle company who's ethos is continuous improvement, and this new bike is the best superbike they can make given the constraints of price etc. Just like the '22 was a major step forward, this model is even more so. In a short time it will be accepted as the best Panigale ever and life will move on until the next revolution.

Big picture, we are very fortunate that Ducati are bringing us these outrageous bikes in an environment full of whiny green fun police who want to wrap everyone in cotton wool and make motorcycles into small electric transportation devices.

Click to expand...

Speaking of the ‘green’ regulations…I can’t wait to see what Deussen can do with this new bike…I feel like the EU and especially the US regulations that nerf the bike a bit are bigger than ever, and so the results of tuning them out will be bigger than ever, especially in the US where the bike gets neutered for sound as much as C0’2 output.

My take on this is that I have a fully sorted, low mileage, track-ready 2020 V4. The resale prices are dropping pretty quickly.

I can go to a wonderful MotoGP circuit in Europe for 3 days for about £2k. By the 3rd day, my laptimes will have improved by well over 5 seconds through familiarisation, based on day 1 - more if I have some instruction. If I was to return to the track for another 3 days within a month or two (another £2k), my laptimes would improve again by min 2 seconds - more with a bit of instruction.

So I am getting faster through seat time than I would if I dropped £30k on a 2025 V4 that probably would not make much difference to my existing laptime (on a like for like basis) - and I am enjoying the bike. So, at my level (and I'm probably close to the Ducati target demographic), in terms of getting faster (which is Ducati's main selling point for the 2025 model), I am better off with more track time (and instruction).

At some point, I would like the 2025 iteration, but not until I could exploit the tech more fully, all the usual Ducati problems have surfaced and when the initial hype and marketing BS have died down. I am neutral on the looks and the DSSA.

In a world of clickbait, YouTube attention grabbing titles to get more clicks, I take any launch of a new bile with a massive sack of salt, frankly.

cl955 said:

My take on this is that I have a fully sorted, low mileage, track-ready 2020 V4. The resale prices are dropping pretty quickly.

I can go to a wonderful MotoGP circuit in Europe for 3 days for about £2k. By the 3rd day, my laptimes will have improved by well over 5 seconds through familiarisation, based on day 1 - more if I have some instruction. If I was to return to the track for another 3 days within a month or two (another £2k), my laptimes would improve again by min 2 seconds - more with a bit of instruction.

So I am getting faster through seat time than I would if I dropped £30k on a 2025 V4 that probably would not make much difference to my existing laptime (on a like for like basis) - and I am enjoying the bike. So, at my level (and I'm probably close to the Ducati target demographic), in terms of getting faster (which is Ducati's main selling point for the 2025 model), I am better off with more track time (and instruction).

At some point, I would like the 2025 iteration, but not until I could exploit the tech more fully, all the usual Ducati problems have surfaced and when the initial hype and marketing BS have died down. I am neutral on the looks and the DSSA.

In a world of clickbait, YouTube attention grabbing titles to get more clicks, I take any launch of a new bile with a massive sack of salt, frankly.

Click to expand...

It would be interesting to ride them back to back and see what difference the chassis, electronics and rear brake feature actually make.

DDA improvements are welcome. The price is not so welcome.

spooky said:

It would be interesting to ride them back to back and see what difference the chassis, electronics and rear brake feature actually make.

DDA improvements are welcome. The price is not so welcome.

Click to expand...

DDA on the old bike (2018) was far from fantastic, lap timer not clicking off laps as it should, and software was just abysmal IMO. It was pretty much a necessity to run Solo lap timer. It looked like the new system worked much better on the launch, not sure why they mentioned it wasn't immediately available to the customers, but it gives me hope that they finally sorted this out for 2025..

thorny said:

DDA on the old bike (2018) was far from fantastic, lap timer not clicking off laps as it should, and software was just abysmal IMO. It was pretty much a necessity to run Solo lap timer. It looked like the new system worked much better on the launch, not sure why they mentioned it wasn't immediately available to the customers, but it gives me hope that they finally sorted this out for 2025..

Click to expand...

I would guess that analysis software is not yet available. If it is wireless and you can use an iPad then that would be awesome. I might be hoping for too much…

cl955 said:

My take on this is that I have a fully sorted, low mileage, track-ready 2020 V4. The resale prices are dropping pretty quickly.

I can go to a wonderful MotoGP circuit in Europe for 3 days for about £2k. By the 3rd day, my laptimes will have improved by well over 5 seconds through familiarisation, based on day 1 - more if I have some instruction. If I was to return to the track for another 3 days within a month or two (another £2k), my laptimes would improve again by min 2 seconds - more with a bit of instruction.

So I am getting faster through seat time than I would if I dropped £30k on a 2025 V4 that probably would not make much difference to my existing laptime (on a like for like basis) - and I am enjoying the bike. So, at my level (and I'm probably close to the Ducati target demographic), in terms of getting faster (which is Ducati's main selling point for the 2025 model), I am better off with more track time (and instruction).

At some point, I would like the 2025 iteration, but not until I could exploit the tech more fully, all the usual Ducati problems have surfaced and when the initial hype and marketing BS have died down. I am neutral on the looks and the DSSA.

In a world of clickbait, YouTube attention grabbing titles to get more clicks, I take any launch of a new bile with a massive sack of salt, frankly.

Click to expand...

If I had to guess I say the improved torque vectoring and the auto rear brake is probably worth a second as the claim…but to grab real gobs of time it ain’t the bike. Like 4 to 10 second improvements only come from being a better rider of a given track on all levels.

Interesting interview with Glenn Irwin (skip to 13m20s). For those that don’t understand how electronics work, you’ll get learned here. Also, sounds like they found some edge grip with the new chassis and the R1 seems to be the leader in this area.

thorny said:

With the astronomical cost of the full exhaust these days, the option you are talking about can get some traction, but will need a proper post with the sound, weight saving and power before and after. If you can offer 80% of gains with decent sound at a fraction of the cost, market could be there.

Click to expand...

Has worked ok so far.

Steven31371 said:

If I had to guess I say the improved torque vectoring and the auto rear brake is probably worth a second as the claim…but to grab real gobs of time it ain’t the bike. Like 4 to 10 second improvements only come from being a better rider of a given track on all levels.

Click to expand...

As i keep saying ad infinitum, if you cant get within 10 seconds (generous) or even 5 seconds of the outright lap record for litrebikes on a stock standard base V4 with sticky tires then you are literally wanking yourself if you think that more gear/carbon/data tools/bike is going to get you there.
People seem to forget just how good all of the litrebikes are and how exponentially more difficult it is to reduce laptime the closer you get to the sharpest end of the sport.

Honestly I'd be interested to see just how many of these bikes, let's say the V4S that Ducati are currently promoting, are actually purchased with the intent of being used on the track. As a split what do you think? 15 track / 85 street? Maybe slightly higher skewed toward track IDK? The marketing hype works, even for street riders where most will never even partly take advantage of what these incredible electronic suites offer not to mention chassis improvements and the list goes on. I've never even tracked my 22 model but I do have an older S1000RR track bike so I understand and can relate to how cool a lot of the new tech is which still makes it awesome to me. Would I ever be able to take advantage of that on the road? Most likely not a chance. Even the majority of track riders on these bikes would have way more to gain from technique and mental gains than what they'd get from changing to this model alone but you can't ignore that 'I still want one' emotion.

I thought it was funny when I was speaking to the Ducati guy at the launch and asked him if I was using this just as the registerable road bike that it is, what would be the benefit over my 22 v4s. He said well its faster, the lap times prove it (quiet for few moments) but he thought about his response and went on to the ergonomics side. He was right, yes the tank is a lot nicer to lock in with your legs and the seat design feels better just sitting on it. Just felt like a question he had not yet come across from a person representing what I think is realistically the larger portion of the market that will be purchasing this bike. Case in hand regarding marketing hype to me. I'm not buying one now because my 22 model does everything I want it to do so well but yes, I still want one..

Just in case you thought it was the bike and not your skills

psshh, i'm going to get the 25 and I'll be racing in motoamerica next year w those magic electronics

spooky said:

I would guess that analysis software is not yet available. If it is wireless and you can use an iPad then that would be awesome. I might be hoping for too much…

Click to expand...

I have an app on my phone that connects wirelessly to my KTM and gives me an immediate visualization of my laps the previous session, with throttle position, brake force, lean angle, roll speed through corners, where you went on throttle and on brakes and how hard etc, it’s sooo cool and helpful trackside. Couldn’t be ergonomically easier to use. Ducati needs to catch up to that! There’s no ‘process’ to it. After each session I connect my phone to the bike WiFi, download the session, then review it between sessions.