New Panigale V4 is ugly?

cl955 said:

My take on this is that I have a fully sorted, low mileage, track-ready 2020 V4. The resale prices are dropping pretty quickly.

I can go to a wonderful MotoGP circuit in Europe for 3 days for about £2k. By the 3rd day, my laptimes will have improved by well over 5 seconds through familiarisation, based on day 1 - more if I have some instruction. If I was to return to the track for another 3 days within a month or two (another £2k), my laptimes would improve again by min 2 seconds - more with a bit of instruction.

So I am getting faster through seat time than I would if I dropped £30k on a 2025 V4 that probably would not make much difference to my existing laptime (on a like for like basis) - and I am enjoying the bike. So, at my level (and I'm probably close to the Ducati target demographic), in terms of getting faster (which is Ducati's main selling point for the 2025 model), I am better off with more track time (and instruction).

At some point, I would like the 2025 iteration, but not until I could exploit the tech more fully, all the usual Ducati problems have surfaced and when the initial hype and marketing BS have died down. I am neutral on the looks and the DSSA.

In a world of clickbait, YouTube attention grabbing titles to get more clicks, I take any launch of a new bile with a massive sack of salt, frankly.

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If I had to guess I say the improved torque vectoring and the auto rear brake is probably worth a second as the claim…but to grab real gobs of time it ain’t the bike. Like 4 to 10 second improvements only come from being a better rider of a given track on all levels.

Interesting interview with Glenn Irwin (skip to 13m20s). For those that don’t understand how electronics work, you’ll get learned here. Also, sounds like they found some edge grip with the new chassis and the R1 seems to be the leader in this area.

thorny said:

With the astronomical cost of the full exhaust these days, the option you are talking about can get some traction, but will need a proper post with the sound, weight saving and power before and after. If you can offer 80% of gains with decent sound at a fraction of the cost, market could be there.

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Has worked ok so far.

Steven31371 said:

If I had to guess I say the improved torque vectoring and the auto rear brake is probably worth a second as the claim…but to grab real gobs of time it ain’t the bike. Like 4 to 10 second improvements only come from being a better rider of a given track on all levels.

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As i keep saying ad infinitum, if you cant get within 10 seconds (generous) or even 5 seconds of the outright lap record for litrebikes on a stock standard base V4 with sticky tires then you are literally wanking yourself if you think that more gear/carbon/data tools/bike is going to get you there.
People seem to forget just how good all of the litrebikes are and how exponentially more difficult it is to reduce laptime the closer you get to the sharpest end of the sport.

Honestly I'd be interested to see just how many of these bikes, let's say the V4S that Ducati are currently promoting, are actually purchased with the intent of being used on the track. As a split what do you think? 15 track / 85 street? Maybe slightly higher skewed toward track IDK? The marketing hype works, even for street riders where most will never even partly take advantage of what these incredible electronic suites offer not to mention chassis improvements and the list goes on. I've never even tracked my 22 model but I do have an older S1000RR track bike so I understand and can relate to how cool a lot of the new tech is which still makes it awesome to me. Would I ever be able to take advantage of that on the road? Most likely not a chance. Even the majority of track riders on these bikes would have way more to gain from technique and mental gains than what they'd get from changing to this model alone but you can't ignore that 'I still want one' emotion.

I thought it was funny when I was speaking to the Ducati guy at the launch and asked him if I was using this just as the registerable road bike that it is, what would be the benefit over my 22 v4s. He said well its faster, the lap times prove it (quiet for few moments) but he thought about his response and went on to the ergonomics side. He was right, yes the tank is a lot nicer to lock in with your legs and the seat design feels better just sitting on it. Just felt like a question he had not yet come across from a person representing what I think is realistically the larger portion of the market that will be purchasing this bike. Case in hand regarding marketing hype to me. I'm not buying one now because my 22 model does everything I want it to do so well but yes, I still want one..

Just in case you thought it was the bike and not your skills

psshh, i'm going to get the 25 and I'll be racing in motoamerica next year w those magic electronics

spooky said:

I would guess that analysis software is not yet available. If it is wireless and you can use an iPad then that would be awesome. I might be hoping for too much…

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I have an app on my phone that connects wirelessly to my KTM and gives me an immediate visualization of my laps the previous session, with throttle position, brake force, lean angle, roll speed through corners, where you went on throttle and on brakes and how hard etc, it’s sooo cool and helpful trackside. Couldn’t be ergonomically easier to use. Ducati needs to catch up to that! There’s no ‘process’ to it. After each session I connect my phone to the bike WiFi, download the session, then review it between sessions.

Steven31371 said:

I have an app on my phone that connects wirelessly to my KTM and gives me an immediate visualization of my laps the previous session, with throttle position, brake force, lean angle, roll speed through corners, where you went on throttle and on brakes and how hard etc, it’s sooo cool and helpful trackside. Couldn’t be ergonomically easier to use. Ducati needs to catch up to that! There’s no ‘process’ to it. After each session I connect my phone to the bike WiFi, download the session, then review it between sessions.

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Perfect.

Steven31371 said:

I have an app on my phone that connects wirelessly to my KTM and gives me an immediate visualization of my laps the previous session, with throttle position, brake force, lean angle, roll speed through corners, where you went on throttle and on brakes and how hard etc, it’s sooo cool and helpful trackside. Couldn’t be ergonomically easier to use. Ducati needs to catch up to that! There’s no ‘process’ to it. After each session I connect my phone to the bike WiFi, download the session, then review it between sessions.

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Wow, that’s fk’g cool!

craig bush said:

Wow, that’s fk’g cool!

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I believe it uses a system from AIM, but Steven can confirm.

I have a feeling that even the Solo 2 allows wireless connection but they don’t have an app. I think he is using a third-party app that he has mentioned before.

I could be wrong though, and maybe the KTM has something bespoke.

Paul G said:

Just in case you thought it was the bike and not your skills

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This was at DRE in Laguna in July. Pretty impressive how much control they have with the bike. The bike is literally tucking the front end into the corner and rear is at the limit out of T11. I’d say Kayla Yaakov probably had the best bike control out of everyone there followed by Herrin.

craig bush said:

Wow, that’s fk’g cool!

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The app is called LapSnap, works with any AIM device or GPS enabled GoPro.

The coolest bit is that you can choose a faster lap on a similar bike and stack it over yours to see where and how the other guy was faster. Here we have a 2:07 lap paired with a 1:52 lap.

Steven31371 said:

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Nice riding

craig bush said:

Nice riding

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I’m still slow but getting better. I can still see where I can grab several more seconds, but soon I’ll need some more top level coaching. Honestly I wasn’t fast enough to benefit from coaching with some of the pro or ex-pro riders before, but I’m on the cusp now.

Steven31371 said:

I’m still slow but getting better. I can still see where I can grab several more seconds, but soon I’ll need some more top level coaching. Honestly I wasn’t fast enough to benefit from coaching with some of the pro or ex-pro riders before, but I’m on the cusp now.

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Your lines look really good.

craig bush said:

Your lines look really good.

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Thanks but I’m still over braking and tipping in too slow, contributing to slower roll speed through the corners, which in turn gives me less speed off the apex down the straight…and ultimately lower top end speed on the straight. I’m 8 to 10 mph slower than the fast guys rolling through a corner which leaves me 10 or 12 mph slower at peak speed on the straights.

Working on it though. One area that I surprise myself a bit, or take heart in, is that on a lot of these comparison laps with faster guys I’m getting on throttle a little harder a little earlier, and am getting comfortable slipping the rear wheel a bit on that acceleration, which I hope will serve me well when I get the braking improved and corner roll speed up.

Fitness is key too…I’ve lost a lot of weight improved both my strength and mobility. But need more and more cardio the faster I get. I can do 10 or 15 laps before totally physically bonking, but I’m tired enough after 6 to 8 laps that I start losing concentration. Your fitness has to be soooo high to ride these bikes. You can’t just be fit enough to do the laps, you gotta be fit enough to do the laps with so much in the tank that you can stay focused and sharp the whole time.

I’ve been trying to brake later and later but it’s not helping because I’m still grabbing too much brake regardless of how late I brake.

This weekend I’m going to focus on not trying to brake later, but instead to brake less, i.e. grab less brake.

The key point I was trying to make is how ergonomically easy the data is to access with easy to read and make use of track visualizations while at the track between each session.

When I said I’m curious about how ergonomic Ducati will make the actual usage of all the data logging features this is what I’m comparing it to.