Ride height adjustment easier?

RickD996 · Jul 19, 2023

Steven31371 said:
Probably the easiest way in terms of not having to alter geometries at all is ti keep a chain link kit on you and change the length of the chain when you change sprockets, because when you move that rear hub eccentric around you are changing wheelbase along with rear ride height. Both of which can effect bike handling. So if you REALLY want to avoid geometry changes and corrections you have to change the chain length with sprocket changes?

Yeah, absolutely. I have spare links and bits if chain!

Although, this bike is the least sensitive bike to geo changes, I've ever ridden. The operating window for setup is a really big one.

Steven31371 · Jul 20, 2023

RickD996 said:
Yeah, absolutely. I have spare links and bits if chain!

Although, this bike is the least sensitive bike to geo changes, I've ever ridden. The operating window for setup is a really big one.

There was a video circulating around on YouTube for a bit where some guys wanted to see what was faster, their well set up 2005 GSXR 1000 or a new (2020?) V4R, they were faster on the Gixxer but largely because of setup (or lack there off) on the V4R.

A couple weeks ago I ran my K5 Gixxer on back to back sessions with the Ducati I my own version of that test…both bikes are well set up. The Gixxer won some SuperStock Championship so it’s as sorted as it get for that bike.

Admittedly the Gixxer was in some way easier to ride, but there was no comparison on which you could ride faster. The power was obviously different but that Gixxer is no slouch, it’s straight up fast and torquey but in a smooth way…the biggest night and day difference though was in turning, both bikes are good mid corner with the Gixxer maybe having a slight edge just from a stability standpoint, but it’s crazy how much more precise and nimble the Ducati is on braking, turn in, and corner exit… and on back to back turns. Night and day. So for sure you can have the geometry off a bit and it would still turn better than most other bikes I’ve ridden.

Interestingly what I came away with is the Gixxer which is a full on built racing bike is actually easier and more enjoyable to ride on the street than my Street bike trying to be a race bike Ducati, and the Ducati is easier to ride fast on the track.

RickD996 · Jul 20, 2023

Steven31371 said:
There was a video circulating around on YouTube for a bit where some guys wanted to see what was faster, their well set up 2005 GSXR 1000 or a new (2020?) V4R, they were faster on the Gixxer but largely because of setup (or lack there off) on the V4R.

A couple weeks ago I ran my K5 Gixxer on back to back sessions with the Ducati I my own version of that test…both bikes are well set up. The Gixxer won some SuperStock Championship so it’s as sorted as it get for that bike.

Admittedly the Gixxer was in some way easier to ride, but there was no comparison on which you could ride faster. The power was obviously different but that Gixxer is no slouch, it’s straight up fast and torquey but in a smooth way…the biggest night and day difference though was in turning, both bikes are good mid corner with the Gixxer maybe having a slight edge just from a stability standpoint, but it’s crazy how much more precise and nimble the Ducati is on braking, turn in, and corner exit… and on back to back turns. Night and day. So for sure you can have the geometry off a bit and it would still turn better than most other bikes I’ve ridden.

Interestingly what I came away with is the Gixxer which is a full on built racing bike is actually easier and more enjoyable to ride on the street than my Street bike trying to be a race bike Ducati, and the Ducati is easier to ride fast on the track.

You know the biggest difference? The crankshaft.
Those handling differences, ease of change of direction, come from the counter rotating crank. Robs a few hp, but, if you're making that in abundance...

Steven31371 · Jul 20, 2023

RickD996 said:
You know the biggest difference? The crankshaft.
Those handling differences, ease of change of direction, come from the counter rotating crank. Robs a few hp, but, if you're making that in abundance...

Curious to see how a properly set up R1 feels with that engine.

cl955 · Jul 20, 2023

Steven31371 said:
Curious to see how a properly set up R1 feels with that engine.

R1 does well in the national and international superbikes, but in the Superstocks in UK, Honda seem to be the best package? Not sure how BMW stack up. (Don't think Ducati are eligible for Superstocks)
Rick knows far more about this than me.

But it seems that the R1 is a good package in spite of its age.

RickD996 · Jul 20, 2023

cl955 said:
R1 does well in the national and international superbikes, but in the Superstocks in UK, Honda seem to be the best package? Not sure how BMW stack up. (Don't think Ducati are eligible for Superstocks)
Rick knows far more about this than me.

But it seems that the R1 is a good package in spite of its age.

The problem the R1 has, is the neanderthalic superstock rules.
£8k electronics package? Yes
£5k suspension? Yes
£4k exhaust? Yes

£180 mastercylinder, appropriate for track use, and an important safety device? No.

And, the R1 has epically bad brakes.

Steven31371 · Jul 20, 2023

cl955 said:
R1 does well in the national and international superbikes, but in the Superstocks in UK, Honda seem to be the best package? Not sure how BMW stack up. (Don't think Ducati are eligible for Superstocks)
Rick knows far more about this than me.

But it seems that the R1 is a good package in spite of its age.

Over here the R1 kills it in MotoAmerica on the tracks with shorter straights, and holds its own even on the fast tracks with long straights against the V4R and BMW…Attack Performance really knows how to build a bike though, and Gagne is a phenom of a rider on that R1

cl955 · Jul 20, 2023

RickD996 said:
The problem the R1 has, is the neanderthalic superstock rules.
£8k electronics package? Yes
£5k suspension? Yes
£4k exhaust? Yes

£180 mastercylinder, appropriate for track use, and an important safety device? No.

And, the R1 has epically bad brakes.

Didn't know that! Ridiculous rules. Thanks.

RickD996 · Jul 20, 2023

cl955 said:
Didn't know that! Ridiculous rules. Thanks.

Slick tyres in stock 1000 this year. Still a mastercylinder designed for road use only

Steven31371 · Jul 20, 2023

RickD996 said:
Slick tyres in stock 1000 this year. Still a mastercylinder designed for road use only

On my SuperStock Gixxer I had to change out the MC straight away even just using the bike for track day use, felt downright unsafe even for that.

I might be tempted to cheat a bit if forced to use a road MC on track, and look for options to have it maybe machined out with a bigger piston or something, street on the outside track on the inside

baggerman · Jul 20, 2023

Easier to sleeve the masters then bore one. But doable methinks. This has been being done for years.

cl955 · Jul 20, 2023

RickD996 said:
Slick tyres in stock 1000 this year. Still a mastercylinder designed for road use only

But it's also frustrating that Yamaha have ignored the criticism of their brakes for years!!

RickD996 · Jul 20, 2023

Steven31371 said:
On my SuperStock Gixxer I had to change out the MC straight away even just using the bike for track day use, felt downright unsafe even for that.

I might be tempted to cheat a bit if forced to use a road MC on track, and look for options to have it maybe machined out with a bigger piston or something, street on the outside track on the inside

Unfortunately, it's not about size, but about quality

RickD996 · Jul 20, 2023

cl955 said:
But it's also frustrating that Yamaha have ignored the criticism of their brakes for years!!

True

craig bush · Jul 20, 2023

RickD996 said:
Unfortunately, it's not about size, but about quality

What are we talking about again?

baggerman · Jul 20, 2023

RickD996 said:
And, then they got to 2018 and improved it, with fixed lingages. Just like, every other manufacturer has used for decades.

I question if this is an improvement. On the 1198 you put it on the swingarm stand and adjust it with 2 wrenches (after some penetrant). On these bikes I have to put it on jackstands take off one muffler and after removing the bolt and adjusting the length then have to put something under the tire to lever it up while lying down to visualize the alignment of the bolt hole. I spilt a beer while doing it. Never happened with the 1198.

andyb · Jul 20, 2023

Exactly

RickD996 · Jul 20, 2023

baggerman said:
I question if this is an improvement. On the 1198 you put it on the swingarm stand and adjust it with 2 wrenches (after some penetrant). On these bikes I have to put it on jackstands take off one muffler and after removing the bolt and adjusting the length then have to put something under the tire to lever it up while lying down to visualize the alignment of the bolt hole. I spilt a beer while doing it. Never happened with the 1198.

I think you need to go on a course to increase your beer management skills

Steven31371 · Jul 20, 2023

RickD996 said:
I think you need to go on a course to increase your beer management skills

Here we go, serious question, who are better beer drinkers: Americans, British, or Australians

Probably gotta consider Canadians to, they can drink some beer, but there’s just so few of them.

cl955 · Jul 21, 2023

Steven31371 said:
Here we go, serious question, who are better beer drinkers: Americans, British, or Australians

Probably gotta consider Canadians to, they can drink some beer, but there’s just so few of them.

Highest beer consumption per head is Czech apparently.

Ride height adjustment easier?

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