Stock 2023 V4R front master cylinder

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spooky said:
I didn’t mention street riding - although the same principles apply, I never want to be going that fast. I’m not sure why you brought up street riding as I didn’t think we were talking about that.

I was saying that trail braking is safer as it keeps the front loaded, greater contact patch, etc. I thought it was commonly accepted these days, hence I was surprised to see someone talking about getting all of your braking done before the turn on track.

I have fairly minimal interest in street riding and I use a much slower bike for that. My primary interest when riding on the street is getting back home safely.
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I ride about 18K miles a year on the street. Motorcycles are simply the best way to travel. I can't think about trying to do all my braking straight up on the track, you'd be getting passed at every corner entrance. Simply slow. Have to be using close to max traction all the time. The mohr circle vectorial thing. If you've raced and never tucked the front trailing in then? To get the sense of having exceeded available traction and the sensations leading up to the event so one can be fully calibrated right. I've learned a lot from crashing hopefully enough that I'll never crash again. These are horrid track day bikes too much motor and way too expensive.
 
I hear what you are saying SD and for people just getting to grips with the speed and dynamics of super bikes on a track day I would say braking then turning is safer for them....but it isn't fast and you are giving up huge amounts of available deceleration.

I think the biggest tuck the front inducer (first hand noob experience here) is adding throttle AND lean angle, you commented on one of my posts saying something like "accelerating to the corner" which is a great visual. Decelerating and leaning in loads the front, sets the suspension, shortens the wheel base, all things that help turn the bike. As long as the brake release is done with care there is very little drama. With a good baseline of confidence (earned through experience) and the right technique trail braking is easily achievable with practice and I feel it is much safer than an unloaded front.
 
Kev242 said:
I think the biggest tuck the front inducer (first hand noob experience here) is adding throttle AND lean angle, you commented on one of my posts saying something like "accelerating to the corner" which is a great visual. Decelerating and leaning in loads the front, sets the suspension, shortens the wheel base, all things that help turn the bike. As long as the brake release is done with care there is very little drama. With a good baseline of confidence (earned through experience) and the right technique trail braking is easily achievable with practice and I feel it is much safer than an unloaded front.
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Agree with all of that.

Hit an accidental neutral and you find out how well the bike turns without the front being loaded. I wouldn’t say that coming off the brakes and then turning is safer. A loaded front also has a larger contact patch.
 
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Kev242 said:
I hear what you are saying SD and for people just getting to grips with the speed and dynamics of super bikes on a track day I would say braking then turning is safer for them....but it isn't fast and you are giving up huge amounts of available deceleration.

I think the biggest tuck the front inducer (first hand noob experience here) is adding throttle AND lean angle, you commented on one of my posts saying something like "accelerating to the corner" which is a great visual. Decelerating and leaning in loads the front, sets the suspension, shortens the wheel base, all things that help turn the bike. As long as the brake release is done with care there is very little drama. With a good baseline of confidence (earned through experience) and the right technique trail braking is easily achievable with practice and I feel it is much safer than an unloaded front.
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Exactly. You have more feedback into your palms when the front is loaded. You can sense the front better. I'm assuming that the adding more throttle and lean angle simultaneously was because you entry was too slow. If one is going to ride for a long time unscathed it's just one of those things you need to be proficient at.
 
Kev242 said:
I think the biggest tuck the front inducer (first hand noob experience here) is adding throttle AND lean angle, you commented on one of my posts saying something like "accelerating to the corner" which is a great visual. Decelerating and leaning in loads the front, sets the suspension, shortens the wheel base, all things that help turn the bike. As long as the brake release is done with care there is very little drama. With a good baseline of confidence (earned through experience) and the right technique trail braking is easily achievable with practice and I feel it is much safer than an unloaded front.
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I’ve tried it all. Hard PROPER trail braking. Rushing the apex by getting on the throttle too early. In the end, it wasn’t fun riding at the limit. It was poor track day riding. Good for racing and will get you fast times. But riding at the limit is a knife edge and usually ends badly
 
baggerman said:
I'm assuming that the adding more throttle and lean angle simultaneously was because you entry was too slow.
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Kinda, caught up to two slow guys on entry, thought on the exit I could go inside of them and accelerate away....good plan, just did it too early and the bike wasn't pointed in the right direction yet. Had lots of time to think about it....blame cold tires, blame cold track, yada yada...but it was just me unloading the front by accelerating and asking for a bit more lean. 3 broken ribs and a lot slower for years, but a recommitment to training with good people and I am considerably faster and with safer habits. Been through a lot of schools but a shameless plug here, JP43 at Chuckwalla really know their stuff.

Again, I hear ya SD, the fear of getting f'd up or f'ing up the bike is legit, but striving to be better at this sport is dopamine city for me and I am well aware of the physical and financial risks...but I could never play golf....or tennis...or basketball...just not my thing.

Now what about that V4R master cylinder? 🤙
 
As the seasoned buffoon, find it yourself… there are many resources that say this. Sure these resources could be wrong but whoever says otherwise, I’d like to see your piston measurements.
 
SuperDomestique said:
For track days, long and light is the way to go but as you get better this becomes shorter and harder. Avoid trail braking as much as possible. Get all the braking done while the bike is vertical 👍 Don’t forget about the rear brake.

Fancy trail braking is for racing IMO
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I agree while you're getting going, but as you improve you have to trial brake just for fun!
Remember our bikes have lean ABS which is a nanny safety net, as you get better you will hear and feel the tire and get more confidence. As for lever feel, it's far more important to set the angle of the lever right for your posture which may mean nixing the locator pins on the stock setup, AND getting good trackday pads which is probably the easiest and cheapest upgrade.
 
SuperDomestique said:
I’ve tried it all. Hard PROPER trail braking. Rushing the apex by getting on the throttle too early. In the end, it wasn’t fun riding at the limit. It was poor track day riding. Good for racing and will get you fast times. But riding at the limit is a knife edge and usually ends badly
Click to expand...

Proper balls to the wall braking is not for fun trackdays by guys who only do one or two a year. If youre in A group, got a trackbike and race then sure why not? I usually ride to the local track and plan to ride home so thats my limiter :)
SuperDomestique said:
Good point
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Yeah but to be a real man you need to ditch the electronics and get a Panigale as a first bike, also you need to mod it with 10k worth of bling before riding
 
SuperDomestique said:
As the seasoned buffoon, find it yourself… there are many resources that say this. Sure these resources could be wrong but whoever says otherwise, I’d like to see your piston measurements.
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One of the people who told me this supplies parts and another races. They could still be wrong of course, but keep your source to yourself, it’s fine.

Such a child. A small, teeny tiny child. 🤣
 
Dont know about safer, but you should try to taper your braking to the apex as a drill on corners that you feel confident in. Essentially you are trying to brake later, but you have to be systematic and progressive. Still have neutral phases or coasting? Then dont worry too much about trial braking at least until you've got your markers sorted.
 
Paul G said:
Dont know about safer, but you should try to taper your braking to the apex as a drill on corners that you feel confident in. Essentially you are trying to brake later, but you have to be systematic and progressive. Still have neutral phases or coasting? Then dont worry too much about trial braking at least until you've got your markers sorted.
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Safer in terms of a loaded front end has the suspension in the right place and a larger contact patch. The front end feels more secure and the bike turns better. I’d say that’s safer than the advice given to avoid trail braking and get it all done while the bike’s vertical - that’s the sort of thing they teach learner road riders for fear of them grabbing the front brake in the middle of a bend on a greasy road.
 
Paul G said:
As for lever feel, it's far more important to set the angle of the lever right for your posture which may mean nixing the locator pins on the stock set up..
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This is a really important comment. To make the bike ergometricly suited to you is really key. The levers, the peg height, the shifter all to the point of greatest ease of use. Makes it easier to go faster.
 
Paul G said:
Proper balls to the wall braking is not for fun trackdays by guys who only do one or two a year. If youre in A group, got a trackbike and race then sure why not? I usually ride to the local track and plan to ride home so thats my limiter :)


Yeah but to be a real man you need to ditch the electronics and get a Panigale as a first bike, also you need to mod it with 10k worth of bling before riding
Click to expand...

You don't have a WSBK replica sitting in your garage? Plebe
 

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