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Sorry one last one. How many O2 sensors are there?
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T-800 upmap for Arrow pipes
- Thread starter RobertH
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2. One per bank of cylinders
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Yes, as soon as I have time to process what you posted.
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Cool. shouldnt take long. What i posted and what im asking for are pretty clear and pretty simple.
@ArcticWhite @vcyclenut Im guessing this will be a long wait on a train don’t come........
make sure when you post your data you show us what data logging tool you’re using to capture it all. Your data should be easy to replicate.
i speculate that reality is that you guys are living a decade or two in the past, and dont even have the logging tools to capture the data to support the things youre claiming as truth. I hope I’m wrong.
make sure when you post your data you show us what data logging tool you’re using to capture it all. Your data should be easy to replicate.
i speculate that reality is that you guys are living a decade or two in the past, and dont even have the logging tools to capture the data to support the things youre claiming as truth. I hope I’m wrong.
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yeah. Only so many posts can go by until its time to put up or shut up and call it a day either way. Im done with the back and forth. I posted my data showing what they said was impossible is actually being done.
I want to see theirs, and you guys all deserve to.
the best possible outcome
for the forum is this:
-recognize lambda shift with narrow band is possible and determine its effects on open loop fueling with the Continental ecm
-show the data that could prove an openloop only map can sufficiently address efficiency at cruise and compensate for environmentals
this way people can decide how they want to approach the problem. If we can substantiate that an open loop only map can truly do what we need it to do, that is mechanically and electrically easier than my method. Other wise, we need to fabricate a unit that addresses both open and closed loop fueling so the bikes ride right.
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I got my bungs for the O2 sensor holes.
Does anyone know how accessible the sensors are on a complete bike?
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Does anyone know how accessible the sensors are on a complete bike?
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Apparently it’s not okay to leave in place and it damages the sensors if you ever want to use them again. My understanding is it won’t effect the tune or bike now.
That’s why I bought bungs for the holes.
Just need to find them now [emoji848]
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vcyclenut
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yes, you can modify the voltage signal with a type of o2 optimizer.
The bike does have pressure and temp sensors to compensate for elevation and temp changes if you disable the stock o2 sensors. In my experience they do an excellent job of compensating.
sorry that i did not mention o2 optimizers. I still prefer shutting off the o2 sensors then using them.
vcyclenut
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I never said using an o2 optimizer was impossible i just failed to consider them when i answered . I dont live on the forum and check it every couple hours to see if someone replied to me.
vcyclenut
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.... man, chillax.
Yes i have a data logging equipment. If someone wants to send me the o2 optimizers your using ill be happy to data log that strategy vs my strategy of turning the stock ones off as soon as woolich gets the v4 software worked out and post the results. I dont just talk .... and i dont do pissing contests of im smarter then you. I am smart enough to know that things have to be tested on EACH AND EVERY different model of bike. What worked best on the 1299 or another bike does not mean thats what will work best on the v4. I have the ability to proper test and will happily post my results. My goal as always is to be able to create the best results for my customers.
In the past ive had better more consistent results with turning off the o2 sensors and going all open loop. That does not mean that will still apply for the v4.
If you answer and i dont reply for a day or so, please dont call me out 4 times like im hiding. i just may not have popped back on the forum and answered
vcyclenut
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here is a chart showing the response of a narrow band o2 sensor. Notice how the voltage can vary widely with a small change from one side to the other of stoich. This makes it not optimal for determining air fuel over a wide range
Awesome!! that chart is helpful. Thanks. the requirement isnt to alter voltage much, it only takes minor adjustments to alter the afr. We’re making adjustments by the fraction of a volt at a time.
to be clear, we arent trying to use narrowband to compensate for the entire afr range into open loop. As arctic said before, we still have to have a good open loop map for high throttle angles.
all we need to do is trim the voltage based on that chart, and build a scale on the device that coincides with afr’a at closed loop referenced with a wideband.
1- what data logging tool/interface are you using to connect to the V4?
2- do you have the ability to look at how much operation time is closed loop? ie closed loop to throttle angle X and rpm Y
3- do we know what the limit range of adjustment is for short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim?
4- is that chart from the V4 ecu, if not, can i get the actual please?
Appreciate that. this is true. If there’s data you have to show that the openloop only maps can compensate for the variations in fuel, environmental etc; or have a better sense of what learning can happen in openloop on this ecu, thats helpful For me to better understand where you guys are coming from. These devices became pretty critical for a lot of road-use bikes running Bosch Motronic BMSX and BMSK because of how much time it spends in closed loop operation. If the Continental ECM hardly spends any time there, the trimmers can still help but it wont be as big of an impact I dont think. I envision this being for the stock bike or the bike with an upmap youre overall happy with, and you just want the bike to ride better day to day.
as far as the optimizers go, i can get them made, i just need to know where to get the O2 plug connections so it can snap in.
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and, that’s fair. Sorry for being spicy. Im in quarantine and have nowhere but the internet to go, unfortunately, and im losing my mind.
nah no apologies. Its on me. I got too wrapped up in being told something im doing now isnt possible, and it wasnt constructive.
the concept works awesome on road going bikes. ive had the bike on 3 continents and this has allowed me to ride through wildly changing environmental conditions and adjust for fuel from 95 to 85 octane in conjunction with a dynamic timing curve. Its just a really good strategy for an ecu that relies a ton on closed loop operation.
im genuinely interested to see an open loop only map that could do all this. If it exists, it is mechanically And electrically easier than my method; which can still require an open loop solution depending on how much fueling carries to OL via LTFT. In my case, LTFT stopped my OL from running lean in the mid range simply from the fuel added by the o2 manipulator. It allows the bike to cruise really efficiently and not pour in fuel when its not needed. I could even trim the fuelling a little leaner in europe when i didnt have corn syrup gas. If youve got data/info/knowledge i havent seen that shows OL doing all that, id love to see it.
on my ducati the rexxer tune was done, and the bike rode great where i was and made power. once octane dipped, or i went up into higher mountains it rode like ...., and the gas mileage was always terrible at cruise. My angst for open loop only is quite possibly based on an experience with a bad tuner and not a bad protocol, i just need to see the data that convinces me of that.
cheers
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