Track tires WHAT ARE YOU RUNNING?

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Dunlop rear is stiffer construction and does affect feel and turn in. Bike turns in faster and rear has less squirm and movement, Local Dunlop guy calls
Pirellis bicycle inner tubes because they are so soft in comparison. However I prefer Pirellis for front feel and grip. Never got used to the harder Dunlop feel.
SC2's up front generally last awhile and offer great grip for track days.
 
Is it just me or did they skip 3 and go right to 4 for the successor to the Rosso Corsa 2?

I'm likely going to replace my Super Corsas with these until I'm needing something better.

View attachment 48605

correct, they skipped the 3's.
as long as the 4's have triple compound i'm game! they work so well on street and track. I had read the outer compound on the Rosso Corsa 2;s is the same as the super corsa
 
I’ve been reading a lot of books and studying motorcycle suspension tuning. I’m an Analyst by profession so I decided to turn those skills to learning motorcycle suspension tuning so I don’t have to call somebody every time I have a question, or need to make adjustments as I lose weight and my pace improves.

One of the things is that generally speaking, the stiffer the bike’s chassis the more ‘flexible’ you want your tire to be, the more flexible your chassis is the more stiff you want to tire to be, to balance the bike overall. Stiff chassis with stiff tire you lose grip quicker and get less progressive and controllable slip, flexible chassis with flexible tires you feel less in control and less confident, and can’t feel the contact patches as well to be able to quickly respond to and manage slip.

The Ducati’s in general are a much stiffer chassis than say the Yamaha’s or Suzuki’s, so generally speaking Ducatis are more suited to a tire that has more flex built in like the Pirellis and Bridgestones, whereas the Yamaha’s and Suzuki’s are more suited to a stiffer tire like the Dunlop’s.

All generally speaking of course, but born out anecdotally in the top race series when you see racers try to cross over to new tires in a different race series without the bike chassis being dialed in for that tire, think Petrucci’s at Warhorse struggling a bit with Dunlaps on a Ducati the 1st several races of that season. Or Gagne struggling on new tires when going to Europe after dominating MotoAmerica on a bike set up for Dunlaps in the US series.

Granted, all that probably matters way less to non-top level professional riders, because most of us aren’t riding these bikes at and beyond their limits for a 45 minute race. But I do believe in executing on the fundamentals at any level in any sport.

And a core fundamental of bike chassis setup is stiff chassis bikes match better with a more flexible tire, and a more flexible chassis’d bike matches well with a stiffer tire.

Ducati’s, by nature tend to be on the stiffer end of the spectrum in terms of designed chassi setup, and would therefore tend to ultimately favor a more flexible tire, meaning Pirelli and Bridgestone versus Dunlaps. Although you can adjust your suspension to some extent to fit any tire better.

Is that super relevant versus your own individual preferences and what makes YOU more confident going faster on your bike at most of our riding levels, probably not, but I do believe that it always pays off in the long run to execute consistently on the fundamentals.

Stiffer chassis paired with more flexible tires with most modern Ducati’s.
 
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I’ve been reading a lot of books and studying motorcycle suspension tuning. I’m an Analyst by profession so I decided to turn those skills to learning motorcycle suspension tuning so I don’t have to call somebody every time I have a question, or need to make adjustments as I lose weight and my pace improves.

One of the things is that generally speaking, the stiffer the bike’s chassis the more ‘flexible’ you want your tire to be, the more flexible your chassis is the more stiff you want to tire to be, to balance the bike overall. Stiff chassis with stiff tire you lose grip quicker and get less progressive and controllable slip, flexible chassis with flexible tires you feel less in control and less confident, and can’t feel the contact patches as well to be able to quickly respond to and manage slip.

The Ducati’s in general are a much stiffer chassis than say the Yamaha’s or Suzuki’s, so generally speaking Ducatis are more suited to a tire that has more flex built in like the Pirellis and Bridgestones, whereas the Yamaha’s and Suzuki’s are more suited to a stiffer tire like the Dunlop’s.

All generally speaking of course, but born out anecdotally in the top race series when you see racers try to cross over to new tires in a different race series without the bike chassis being dialed in for that tire, think Petrucci’s at Warhorse struggling a bit with Dunlaps on a Ducati the 1st several races of that season. Or Gagne struggling on new tires when going to Europe after dominating MotoAmerica on a bike set up for Dunlaps in the US series.

Granted, all that probably matters way less to non-top level professional riders, because most of us aren’t riding these bikes at and beyond their limits for a 45 minute race. But I do believe in executing on the fundamentals at any level in any sport.

And a core fundamental of bike chassis setup is stiff chassis bikes match better with a more flexible tire, and a more flexible chassis’d bike matches well with a stiffer tire.

Ducati’s, by nature tend to be on the stiffer end of the spectrum in terms of designed chassi setup, and would therefore tend to ultimately favor a more flexible tire, meaning Pirelli and Bridgestone versus Dunlaps. Although you can adjust your suspension to some extent to fit any tire better.

Is that super relevant versus your own individual preferences and what makes YOU more confident going faster on your bike at most of our riding levels, probably not, but I do believe that it always pays off in the long run to execute consistently on the fundamentals.

Stiffer chassis paired with more flexible tires with most modern Ducati’s.

Always remember Steven, even in MotoGP, with all the best technology, understanding, theories and knowledge in the world, they still throw last minute settings in a bike, that suddenly make them work on race day 🤣
Nothing is smarter than testing, unfortunately 🤷‍♂️
 
Always remember Steven, even in MotoGP, with all the best technology, understanding, theories and knowledge in the world, they still throw last minute settings in a bike, that suddenly make them work on race day 🤣
Nothing is smarter than testing, unfortunately 🤷‍♂️

Agreed, and I’m definitely more book smart than track smart on this stuff for now, at least compared to guys like you.


Funny side anecdote about that last minute testing and adjustments though.

The guys at the shop I use most used to have a company that just does telemetry and data management for MotoAmerica and a bunch of race teams. He was joking around about how finicky professional riders are about setup and feel and that a lot of it was just mental.

They’d get the bike set up where on telemetry it was perfect but the rider says it’s off, so sometimes they’d give them a placebo lol, and tell they they adjusted XYZ and it’s perfect now, so next session go ride hard and see how the new setup feels….the rider would come back saying it’s perfect now but they hadn’t changed a thing haha
 
Always remember Steven, even in MotoGP, with all the best technology, understanding, theories and knowledge in the world, they still throw last minute settings in a bike, that suddenly make them work on race day 🤣
Nothing is smarter than testing, unfortunately 🤷‍♂️

Nothing is more powerful than the placebo effect.

If I was to have a dedicated set of trackday wheels I’d do SC3s or TDs. Something you can get good bang for the buck. Plus no need to faff with tirewarmers. For trackdays, spending money on soft slicks that wear quickly makes no sense. Sure, having confidence in your tires is probably the most important thing but chasing times and trying to be fastest in B and C groups is asinine.

(If you’re racing, then chuck as much money as you can afford at tires)

Tires seem to have an “Instagram vs reality” phenomenon. Riders think they’re the next Rossi charging every corner and pulling slides like Stoner, but in actuality they’re tip-toeing around the track like the rest of us. Ie the limiting factor isn’t the tires.

For me, I’ll stick w the SC SP or switch to those new Rosso Corsa 4 since I ride on street the majority of the time and sprinkle a few trackdays in through the year.
 
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one thing to keep in mind also and this is pertaining to Ricks tire review, our Dunlops are not he same as his - from what I have hear d the UK/EU Dunlops are not as stiff as ours...

I suspect the same. I think the exports are different and they are given different names on different continents. I tried the Dunlops in the US & I just couldn't stand them at all. I think they must be different in the UK by the descriptions I read. Throw in here riding style, and experience / opinion will vary.
Here (Mugello) almost everyone is riding the PIRELLI SLICKS SC1 pretty much always. Pirelli is here at the track and it's the only thing they sell at the track and asking for other options they look at you like you have a crack in your head. SC0 if it's a screaming hot August race, or rain tires for rain.
That said, what Rick said. Experiment if you got it. I haven't mixed tires.
 
Tried the Pirelli SC3 slicks front (125) and rear at Portimao in November and they seemed good for my level (which is steady)
Had 2 days so far out of them, but most of day 1 was super slow owing to learning the track and a q/s problem (my fault). It rained on Day 3.
Will use them at Andalucia in a couple of weeks (hopefully they will be OK after a winter in a cold garage!) and report back.
 
Tried the Pirelli SC3 slicks front (125) and rear at Portimao in November and they seemed good for my level (which is steady)
Had 2 days so far out of them, but most of day 1 was super slow owing to learning the track and a q/s problem (my fault). It rained on Day 3.
Will use them at Andalucia in a couple of weeks (hopefully they will be OK after a winter in a cold garage!) and report back.

It’s a myth that tires age out, the rubber doesn’t degrade, it’s designed intentionally not to.

The only thing that can make them prematurely oxidize is UV light, meaning leaving them sitting in the sun.
 
None of this discussion matters until you are within a second of race pace then it matters a lot. If it's round and black and does not have tread its probably going to work just fine for most track day enthusiasts. I just use SP's because its 20% track ATM.
 
It’s a myth that tires age out, the rubber doesn’t degrade, it’s designed intentionally not to.

The only thing that can make them prematurely oxidize is UV light, meaning leaving them sitting in the sun.

This is mostly true but excessive heat cycles can also deteriorate tire performance.
 
None of this discussion matters until you are within a second of race pace then it matters a lot. If it's round and black and does not have tread its probably going to work just fine for most track day enthusiasts. I just use SP's because its 20% track ATM.

I disagree, I’m certainly not that fast but I can feel the difference pretty glaringly in the tires, and when they feel right or wrong it dramatically increases or decreases confidence by a good bit.
 
This is mostly true but excessive heat cycles can also deteriorate tire performance.

It’s not the heat cycles per se that deteriorate performance. It’s the wearing away of the tread rubber so that the tire overheats. Dunlop actually now use the topic as a marketing point that THEIR tires don’t heat cycle.

 
It’s not the heat cycles per se that deteriorate performance. It’s the wearing away of the tread rubber so that the tire overheats. Dunlop actually now use the topic as a marketing point that THEIR tires don’t heat cycle.


I wonder what the theory behind tires running cooler as they lose rubber is 🤔
 
I have no doubt they lose grip due to wear but this theory seems off… less rubber means less heat retention but also faster to heat up.

Maybe they mean that with less grip and so less speed the tires lose temperature?

I’m just questioning the idea Dunlop is suggesting that the root cause is temperature.
 
It’s a myth that tires age out, the rubber doesn’t degrade, it’s designed intentionally not to.

The only thing that can make them prematurely oxidize is UV light, meaning leaving them sitting in the sun.

Thanks Steven, that's reassuring.
 

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