Yet another shootout

The funny thing to me is that I can put 350 miles a day on my 1199, yet I rode 10 miles on an RR and was very uncomfortable. A normal ride for me is 150-180 miles in about three hours and I have no discomfort at all on those rides. The heat is bad in stop and go riding, but unless it's in the 90s out I'm okay cruising at 75-80mph. Comfort is all about how you fit one of these bikes. None of them is one size fits all.

I should also add that mine has what I consider perfect throttle and clutch action. Maybe I just got a good one, but mine has no throttle play at all, and the response is smooth and linear.

Jayhawkk said:

I enjoy their reviews... They always just rate subjectively just like we all do when buying. They also basically state buy what moves you which is what we also do. I've owned several ducati and love them and really wanted the 1299 since just looking at it moved me but after 15 minutes I was crippled on it. Most people will probably not experience the same issues but those who may have back issues may look at what I say and take heed when buying and that's what we're looking for with reviews.

I'll never understand why people get butthurt on these reviews or start going on how they're paid by the manufacturer's so they make .... up. If 2 of us on this forum made a similar review it would be similar in regards to information even if the choices were different.

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I disagree, it's not your job in a review to offer your personal opinion, you base everything said about the product on facts and data, otherwise there is no point, it should just be a blog and your opinions on things.

Regardless these idiots said the BMW was the best bike last year despite other bikes like the Aprilia RSV4 being faster on track and our performing it. Price, has nothing to do with it, looks and opinions have nothing to do with it, just performance, features and pros and cons.

They aren't sport bike guys, are Ducati haters/BMW fan boys and their reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.

The review they do are total crap.

kismetcapitan said:

wow, FZR1000R1 is totally right! the R1 is the best trackbike, even though it makes the LEAST horsepower.

It's even a better street bike. More fun, etc.

Turns out our resident troll has been preaching the gospel and the truth!

time to sell the 1299S and get my hands on an R1M.





.....or maybe those idiots need to learn how to ride a twin. totally different skillset required .

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LOL since when outright HP means "best"... do you remember the days when 916 and finally the 996SPS came out...(or are you too young to remember that)

desmotesta said:

LOL since when outright HP means "best"... do you remember the days when 916 and finally the 996SPS came out...(or are you too young to remember that)

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He wasn't suggesting such.

It's a long story.

Ther s no point in a review with hard numbers since there are so many variables that the subjective opinions are more helpful. How does a 2 second difference in lap times matter to the average rider? How does a slightly better braking number or 0-60 or 1/4 mile run matter to the average rider? However, knowing fueling issues, quick shifter issues, being uncomfortable, acceleration feel, braking feel etc should matter since THAT is what you can look at when you're put test riding. So if it's an issue I have a problem with and it presents itself then I can see whether it's worth it.

I read reviews on here about the bike dying and I test rode it and it happened to me so that gave the issue validity in my eyes. For some this wouldn't be an issue but it was for me. I want to know about buzzing and feet going numb and roasted nuts and how confident they felt in turns. Numbers are just for fun and I guess bragging rights.

On the street or mountain road midrange grunt and light/nimble handling is what makes a bike fun, that's why the 1299 is king - trying to keep a bike on the boil above 10k rpm on tight switchbacks isn't my idea of fun, its just work

jay - the stalling issue does clear up, my bike hasn't stalled once after the first 150 miles or so, may be the computer "learning", who knows

Btw this video is really bad, especially the comments on the street (1299) ride - completely off base

What I thought was too fast of a tip in while test riding turned out to be just right on a Canyon run at speed. I thought the BMW was perfect on turn in then at speed it becomes a train. So my opinion definitely changes a little with more ride time. Fzr that's good to know since that was a pretty odd and slightly dangerous random issue. I probably could have rectified the back issue too with some helibars and adjustable rearsets. I let that talk me out of the Panigale since I needed something to make 19k out the door for a fully loaded s1000rr something not to pass up. A few things I definitely enjoy like butter smooth fueling without a tune, cruise control and rocket like hit but I still keep looking at that panigale.

I was close to putting money on the BMW, really close, but the Ducati is so unique and such a gas to ride - the way it pulls is addicting. I would have always been thinking about the feel of it so I had to get one - no regrets - I haven't fully explored what it can do on my favorite mountain road yet but that will happen soon enough.

I'm convinced the low speed stalling that happens soon after startup is that damned charcoal canister. I removed mine, gas poured out of it, and I threw that thing straight into the garbage where it belongs.

No more stalling


For my body type, the S1000RR is very comfortable. I've done 600 mile days on it on long distance tours with luggage. True, I do have rearsets that help put my feet and legs in just the right place. I had an '10 and own an '12 - the '12 is much easier to flick around, relatively speaking, but it still takes a lot of work to heave around on track. You also don't need to change gears much on that thing. It does everything so well that it has become incredibly boring and I stopped riding it many months ago, always preferring to take one of my other Ducatis.

Macattack said:

View attachment 14481


wtf is up with those lap times .

a really fast lap at button willow is mid 140's

who are these guys? if they ran a shortened track then what the hell does that prove .

A 600 would probably have won this shootout. as said before
magazine shootouts are for squids .

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As long as all bikes ran on the same track I guess I don't see your point?

ttkarp said:

As long as all bikes ran on the same track I guess I don't see your point?

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because most of what those guys said doesn't jibe with the bikes attributes . the lap times don't match the track . makes you wonder if they made them up or used some weird calculation to hide their embarrassingly slow lap times.

If they shortened the track that much (although probably would be as good for one as all) it doesnt give any real depth as to how fast the bike is . especially since we can't compare to the fast laps set by fast people. probably done on purpose

I can say this with absolute certainty that any "comparison" which puts an item cherished by the reader at top will be liked by the reader, and the one that doesn't..well you get the point...

The thing to remember is that every machine, car/truck/airplane, is always..always..a compromise

If someone bought a Ducati, a BMW or an R1M so it will be the absolute best, well they had their priorities skewed.

We all buy these machines for a plethora of reasons, some are logical, and some ONLY make sense to the particular buyer/rider.

At the end of the day, each brand has its loyalist and its "haters"... Same goes for Porsche and BMW and of course the rest of "for that much money I can buy 2 or 3 of this and that"..

Only thing I have noticed in the last 20 years is that, we (ducati owners) , have grown substantially in numbers.. At one time only the lucky few could afford one..
Our income/salary/individual worth as a nation has not increased as quickly as our tendency to spend on "Wants" thanks to several factors, mostly the ability to share our wants and exposure to social media (internet forums included)..
I remember I owned my first and later 2nd 998 for a total of 5 years and even much of family (let alone friends) had no idea that I owned a Ducati..or a 998


With a much larger audience, we have a slightly more Mixed group of people and some who would have always owned different machines, machines that ARE bought/sold/cherished based on Spec sheets alone, which is why there is a much higher attention being paid to "who says what about MY bike , in what magazine and in which internet show.."

I have never liked Ducatis for their sheer power, absolute best handling (god knows there are better options) and ease of use.. There is something else that attracts me to this brand and it can't be fully explained or understood..

Have to take these things with a grain of salt...

Know where the Panigale isn't hot? The track.
Know where the Panigale's throttle isn't "abrupt and snatchy"? The track.
Know where the Panigale's rowdiness is fun? The track.

Ride the Panigale the way you're supposed to ride it where it was designed to be ridden and it's a boatload of fun. Do something different and it's bound to disappoint. The Panigale is a bike that is difficult to ride slowly. That is a good thing. That's not an apology for the Panigale, it's calling it what it is.

i own both and there are no brakes better than the ducati period. anyway que the test mean nothing and they don't but wouldn't you like to at least see ducati win one.

on another note is honda crazy i looked at the new repsol yesterday 17200 no abs no traction same bike

i can get the best at yamaha for cheaper.

desmotesta said:

I can say this with absolute certainty that any "comparison" which puts an item cherished by the reader at top will be liked by the reader, and the one that doesn't..well you get the point...

The thing to remember is that every machine, car/truck/airplane, is always..always..a compromise

If someone bought a Ducati, a BMW or an R1M so it will be the absolute best, well they had their priorities skewed.

We all buy these machines for a plethora of reasons, some are logical, and some ONLY make sense to the particular buyer/rider.

At the end of the day, each brand has its loyalist and its "haters"... Same goes for Porsche and BMW and of course the rest of "for that much money I can buy 2 or 3 of this and that"..

Only thing I have noticed in the last 20 years is that, we (ducati owners) , have grown substantially in numbers.. At one time only the lucky few could afford one..
Our income/salary/individual worth as a nation has not increased as quickly as our tendency to spend on "Wants" thanks to several factors, mostly the ability to share our wants and exposure to social media (internet forums included)..
I remember I owned my first and later 2nd 998 for a total of 5 years and even much of family (let alone friends) had no idea that I owned a Ducati..or a 998


With a much larger audience, we have a slightly more Mixed group of people and some who would have always owned different machines, machines that ARE bought/sold/cherished based on Spec sheets alone, which is why there is a much higher attention being paid to "who says what about MY bike , in what magazine and in which internet show.."

I have never liked Ducatis for their sheer power, absolute best handling (god knows there are better options) and ease of use.. There is something else that attracts me to this brand and it can't be fully explained or understood..

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so well said. i could care less about the brand i got the 1199 because of the looks period. not because it was a ducati. as a mater of fact the name almost kept me away because i hear ducati i envision expensive problems.

i had all the problems. they weren't expensive. my bike is dialed in now and like yesterday i rode the hp4 all day went home walked my dog . then rode the 1199 all night.

Pretty glad I wasnt one of the few that hopped on the bandwagon and bought one early before all these tests were out. What a joke. Ducati is making over 30 less hp in most cases than what they advertise, even the lower hp advertised rsv4 is making more hp than the 1299. Motorcycle.com did a test on the roll ons and the Ducati was still beat by heavier bikes with less torque.

Ducati is still fast, and still looks good, but damn, seems like they really don't care about having the fastest bike. RSV4 looks just as good, has better graphics and sounds way better than the Duc, and its cheaper. Glad these guys are saving me thousands. Ducati just can't make a bike that truly competes with the competition. They keep increasing the displacement of the twin but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I mean, it isn't even the fastest around the track, despite being the most expensive and despite being one of the most hardcore street bikes you can get. What honestly is the point of making all these sacrifices if it can't excel in any one thing. Has the most torque but that didn't help it in the roll on test. Its the lightest but it isn't the fastest and when compared back to back with all the other bikes, people don't like it.

So disappointed with all the reviews I've read. I'm pretty sure Ducati should have stuck with the 195 number, it doesn't make 10 more.

have fun finding parts when your RSV4 motor suddenly lunches itself....

there's a reason why Aprilia's are cheaper. spend less for parts and labor, get a bike at a more competitive price.

You should ride more, and read less reviews and "test numbers". 107lb/ft torque in real life is a lot different than reading about it in some "test".

haha, the return of secretly a geek

SecretlyaFish said:

Pretty glad I wasnt one of the few that hopped on the bandwagon and bought one early before all these tests were out. What a joke. Ducati is making over 30 less hp in most cases than what they advertise

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Nope - 205 hp with 10% driveline loss is 185 and most of the bikes properly tested are right there. You haven't been here so aren't aware of the speed sensor issue on dyno runs which results in lower numbers and rich fueling

Motorcycle.com did a test on the roll ons and the Ducati was still beat heavier bikes with less torque.

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Reference?

Ducati is still fast, and still looks good, but damn, seems like they really don't care about having the fastest bike. RSV4 looks just as good, has better graphics and sounds way better than the Duc, and its cheaper. Glad these guys are saving me thousands. Ducati just can't make a bike that truly competes with the competition.

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haha, the more you post the more your ignorance shines through - please, look up the 2015 MCN test and get educated, the Euro version of the 1299 made 196 hp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4kMSXKn9g

Like SAG has the money to buy this or the RF anyway....he doesn't even own a bike, just random trolling

Loved my 1199, but before I traded it in on my 1299 I test drove the 15 S1000RR, 15 R1 and to me honestly the R1 felt similar to my 1199 in terms of power band its a little better because of the wider band width and handling is similiar. Im not brand loyal but I've always been partial to the Yamaha's R1 and R6 so I was praying the new R1 would be out of this world and even though they made massive improvements over the older R1 but it felt like the technology had just got caught up to my 2012 1199. The issues I had with the R1 was:

1. The brake fades quickly
2. Even though they shed the weight it still feel a tad heavier than what the journalist reports.
3. The power band was in the higher revs similar to the 1199. You still have to ride this R1 in its upper Rev range to really enjoy the bike
4. The power was similar to the older 1199R.
5. The suspension wasn't great unlike the R1M

The R1M to me was a better buy at MSRP $21K all you need to do is change the MC and calipers and the suspension was great! I found a couple of R1M's but the Dealers jacked the price up to $30K before tax and license and after changing the calipers and MC you are well above the New Panigale R.

I was on my way to the Porsche dealer and I happened to stop buy Ducati West Lake to test ride the 1299 and the increase in Mid, better suspension, auto Blipper, cornering ABS, Wheelie control, better handling and grip thats cheaper than the R1M thats all she wrote. I felt it had way more usable power than the R1 on the streets/canyons and you don't have to make any performance modifications such as brakes suspensions or engine mods. If you want the 1299 to be a beast its not hard or expensive to do with 1287 cc's. I just made a simple sprocket change and I feel its too much, the acceleration is extremely fast and brutal.

The R1 is a good bike though and I can see how these journalist do faster lap times on the bike with less power because the character of the inline four. If you're not use to a twin's power deliver you will be a little slower because the torque and power comes on so fast and hard it actually slows you down a bit whether you have it the electronics on or off. You still have to be a really good rider to enjoy the Panigale and the performance it will give you.

The BMW was just a missile! power its insanely fast, handling was great but like the rest of the 4's and the 1199 you have to be in the higher rev range to enjoy it. I felt the 1299s was better suited for my needs as track days are becoming less for me and more open roads and canyons rides. I had a couple of opportunities to ride the new Panigale R. its the Fastest bike out there period no R1/M, BMW or ZX-10 can touch this thing. I still haven't rode the RSV4 RR/RF yet but from the reviews I don't think it can touch the new R.

I believe it all comes down to what you like and comfortable on. They all have pro/cons and you cannot determine which is a better bike on one track. Majority of riders are not used to a Vtwin so naturally you will be faster on a 4. You need to spend time on it and trust it. The class of 2015 bikes are all great bikes isn't it great to have choices?