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Steven31371 · Jun 1, 2024

CSV4 said:
Have you ridden one?

Yeah, although admittedly very early in my track riding experience. I wasn’t fast enough to fully appreciate it. I know two local guys who have one, John Chen has two and tracked one for years. RoadracerX has one and says it’s the best bike he ever bought and still believes to this day it’s the best production bike ever made, but he won’t ride it at track because it’s sort of a collectors item for him in his stable of 30 bikes, and he doesn’t want to have to track down replacement parts.

He says the RC 8C is the best production bike ever made that he’ll actually ride on track.

spooky · Jun 1, 2024

I was joking but couldn’t select emoticons on my mobile phone.

craig bush · Jun 1, 2024

Steven31371 said:
Pretty stoked about it, but realistically I went from slow to less slow lol…I’m only making that big of improvements BECAUSE I’m still slow lol

The New BMW’s and Aprillias are having a lot of engine failures, there may be engine failures on the HP4 Race but I’ve never heard of one. An acquaintance of mine, usually the fastest guy at all our local track days, road one for 3 or four years, 10 track days per year minimum on one without a single problem with the engine.

The engine is warrantied to 3500 miles, then they want you to get a new engine, not because it will fail at 3500 miles, but because they will warranty the new engine for another 3500 miles.

I’m not concerned about the engine failing, especially under warranty. And I’ll keep it well lubricated with tip top maintenance, if it fails after 3500 miles I’m good with buying a new engine.

Yeah, iirc he told me has has 2500 miles or so on his.

Help me understand the position of being “unconcerned” with engine failure. The engine will eventually fail - it isn’t a matter of if, but when. There are no new replacements available and i can’t find anyone rebuilding them.

panibadboy · Jun 1, 2024

Steven31371 said:
The New BMW’s and Aprillias are having a lot of engine failures

Re: BMW - not S series Gen4

It has been a very reliable engine.

M engine deffo has issues.

The only issues that S had :

- shift-cam sensor failure
- coil rings failure

Have been more or less resolved.

craig bush · Jun 1, 2024

Steven31371 said:
… but he won’t ride it at track because it’s sort of a collectors item for him in his stable of 30 bikes, and he doesn’t want to have to track down replacement parts.

Exactly. It’s a collector’s bike now.

panibadboy · Jun 1, 2024

bp_SFV4 said:
I don't think advising someone to get a V4S as a track bike really makes sense

Well yes and no. All depends what you want out of it. V4S in default trim with few ergo tweaks like clipons and rearsets will easily get you 2mins at Mugello, that's just 14seconds off today's MM93 pace.
Obviously V4 + after market suspension is another option.
All are reasonable monies in 2024.

Steven31371 · Jun 1, 2024

panibadboy said:
Well yes and no. All depends what you want out of it. V4S in default trim with few ergo tweaks like clipons and rearsets will easily get you 2mins at Mugello, that's just 14seconds off today's MM93 pace.
Obviously V4 + after market suspension is another option.
All are reasonable monies in 2024.

None of that is relevant in real life with a real person riding it. A bike’s peak capability is a meaningless metric for all but professional riders.

The real question is how fast can YOU ride it. Pretty sure my V4S was set up in a way that it would be within 1 to 3 seconds of a WSBK bike in a professional’s hands. In my hands it was (so far) 6 seconds slower than a bike with nearly 100 hp less.

Most of your posts sound like a fan boys post, not someone who actually rides these things…not saying you are, but it sounds like it.

Steven31371 · Jun 1, 2024

craig bush said:
Yeah, iirc he told me has has 2500 miles or so on his.

Help me understand the position of being “unconcerned” with engine failure. The engine will eventually fail - it isn’t a matter of if, but when. There are no new replacements available and i can’t find anyone rebuilding them.

Just asked the guy I know that has been tracking his at the highest level for years now about the engine:

You buy that bike for the chassy and components not the engine.

craig bush · Jun 1, 2024

Steven31371 said:
Just ask the guy I know that has been tracking his at the highest level for years now about the engine:

View attachment 54851

You buy that bike for the chassy and components not the engine.

I’ve heard the assertions that there are “companies” that will rebuild the motor. No one seems to know the names of these mystery companies though. If you identify one, I’ll call and verify. I reached out to Alpha racing and got no response.

Replace the hp4 race motor with a gen 3 s1000rr motor? Sure, you can do that. I considered that option. But there’s a reason the gen 3 s1000rr motor costs $12k from BMW, and the hp4 race motor (now discontinued) was $30k, and it’s not because they’re almost the same. Doing this will change the entire riding experience to essentially an upgraded s1000rr. The motor is considered the heart and soul of race vehicles for a reason.

SuperDomestique · Jun 1, 2024

I heard @roadracerx jumped to a Fireblade SP recently…

HP4 is a 7 year old bike based on previous gen platform. Might be fast but I’m sure a well spec’d new S1000RR would be able to hold its own.

Steven31371 · Jun 1, 2024

SuperDomestique said:
I heard @roadracerx jumped to a Fireblade SP recently…

HP4 is a 7 year old bike based on previous gen platform. Might be fast but I’m sure a well spec’d new S1000RR would be able to hold its own.

I talk to him frequently, and go to a lot of the same track days, he rides a different bike nearly every time I see him lol.

One day the RC 8C, another his triumph 765, last weekend he was on his Alpha BMW lol

Steven31371 · Jun 1, 2024

craig bush said:
I’ve heard the assertions that there are “companies” that will rebuild the motor. No one seems to know the names of these mystery companies though. If you identify one, I’ll call and verify. I reached out to Alpha racing and got no response.

Replace the hp4 race motor with a gen 3 s1000rr motor? Sure, you can do that. I considered that option. But there’s a reason the gen 3 s1000rr motor costs $12k from BMW, and the hp4 race motor (now discontinued) was $30k, and it’s not because they’re almost the same. Doing this will change the entire riding experience to essentially an upgraded s1000rr. The motor is considered the heart and soul of race vehicles for a reason.

I asked the name of the shop that rebuilds the engines. Will report back, I kinda disagree that the engine is the heart of the bike, certainly that’s true with 95% of bikes, the engine is not the center of the bike on the RC 8C…it’s all about the chassis and suspension. I think the same is true of the HP4 Race

panibadboy · Jun 1, 2024

Steven31371 said:
None of that is relevant in real life with a real person riding it. A bike’s peak capability is a meaningless metric for all but professional riders.
The real question is how fast can YOU ride it. Pretty sure my V4S was set up in a way that it would be within 1 to 3 seconds of a WSBK bike in a professional’s hands. In my hands it was (so far) 6 seconds slower than a bike with nearly 100 hp less.

2mins is the time of fast group of a regular track-day

Steven31371 said:
Most of your posts sound like a fan boys post, not someone who actually rides these things…not saying you are, but it sounds like it.

I just gave you 2 brands, 3 different bike types - what fan boys post are you talking about ?

Steven31371 · Jun 2, 2024

panibadboy said:
2mins is the time of fast group of a regular track-day

I just gave you 2 brands, 3 different bike types - what fan boys post are you talking about ?

I care way less about what time you run in the fast group at a track day than I care about if you are comfortable with and keep your cool in close passing, and hold a predictable steady line, and are past having panic reactions if things go wrong…I ride in the fast group, and I’m slower than 80 to 90% of the riders in that group…but I meet all those criteria above so nobody ever has an issue with me riding with them. I try to avoid the slower groups, not because they are slower, but because they are more dangerous at track days.

panibadboy · Jun 2, 2024

Steven31371 said:
I care way less about what time you run in the fast group at a track day than I care about if you are comfortable with and keep your cool in close passing, and hold a predictable steady line, and are past having panic reactions if things go wrong…I ride in the fast group, and I’m slower than 80 to 90% of the riders in that group…but I meet all those criteria above so nobody ever has an issue with me riding with them. I try to avoid the slower groups, not because they are slower, but because they are more dangerous at track days.

all makes sense.

I'm just curious what drives you buying hp4 race over gen4 s1000rr ? $$$ ?

Steven31371 · Jun 2, 2024

panibadboy said:
all makes sense.

I'm just curious what drives you buying hp4 race over gen4 s1000rr ? $$$ ?

Weight, chassis, suspension and brake components, and most importantly of all, those gen 4 engines are failing and BMW is not standing behind the warranty with honor and integrity. Also I’m in love with my RC 8C chassis and ergonomics, I want my next liter bike to be as close to this RC 8C as possible but with more power next season. The HP4 Race weight, sizes, ergos, etc are the closest thing out there to the RC 8C. Price is not that relevant to me.

Bruce Wayne · Jun 3, 2024

I bought 2 hp4 race, one to ride the other as spares, i can honestly say that it is the best motorcycle i have ever ridden, it just does everything you want a motorcycle to do, i ride it at 90% of what i would my race bike and that's about 1sec slower but ultra safe. In Australia parts are no longer available but engine parts are. Engine is very easy to rebuild and will do 5,000 race KLM no problem. Engine has close ratio gearbox made by alpha but could also fit the Nova one that is even better, has mild camshafts and few other kit parts but can definitely be rebuilt easily. At 146kg there is nothing else like it.

craig bush · Jun 3, 2024

Bruce Wayne said:
I bought 2 hp4 race, one to ride the other as spares, i can honestly say that it is the best motorcycle i have ever ridden, it just does everything you want a motorcycle to do, i ride it at 90% of what i would my race bike and that's about 1sec slower but ultra safe. In Australia parts are no longer available but engine parts are. Engine is very easy to rebuild and will do 5,000 race KLM no problem. Engine has close ratio gearbox made by alpha but could also fit the Nova one that is even better, has mild camshafts and few other kit parts but can definitely be rebuilt easily. At 146kg there is nothing else like it.

Source for engine parts?

Do you know any reputable engine builders who have rebuilt, and are accepting work rebuilding, the hp4 race motors in the US? I’ve looked and can’t find anyone.

Bruce Wayne · Jun 3, 2024

craig bush said:
Source for engine parts?

Do you know any reputable engine builders who have rebuilt, and are accepting work rebuilding, the hp4 race motors in the US? I’ve looked and can’t find anyone.

Most parts are OEM, im in Australia so don't know anyone in the US, but i would think that any reputable engine builder could rebuild one they are a really easy engine to work on.

Steven31371 · Jun 3, 2024

craig bush said:
Source for engine parts?

Do you know any reputable engine builders who have rebuilt, and are accepting work rebuilding, the hp4 race motors in the US? I’ve looked and can’t find

There’s no special sauce in that edge, it’s got a titanium crank and some titanium bits in the top end to handle higher RPM, but it’s essentially sort of normal run of the mill endurance racing parts

With Ducati’s, the entire bike is built around the engine, the entire chassis of the bike is set up around managing that engine. HP for race is like the KTMRC8C. It’s chassis first engine second.

Which is precisely why they’re so damn good to ride at track, especially if you’re not a professional

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