Would you choose a V4R or SP2 for trackday use?

craig bush · Mar 28, 2024

gtomachine710 said:
It's not like we're comparing a V6 to a V8 here. $12-15k for a different engine and basically nothing else over a V4S doesn't really make much sense. Probably the reason there's a lot more new R's readily available vs the SP2, which there are hardly any of.

Viewed from one frame of reference, the R doesn’t make sense. From a different perspective, it might.

To my understanding, WSBK regulations:
- limit displacement to 1000cc
- limit coat of production bike to $45k
- require 500 bikes for homologation

1000cc + 500 bikes + $45k = production V4R

For some, that equation balances; for others, it doesn’t. If it doesn’t for you, then change the parameters:

1100cc + production run + $40k = sp2

If that balances, buy the sp2 and enjoy.

spooky · Mar 28, 2024

andyb said:
so what.... because you decide what you want to use a motorbike for.. and then buy the item that best suits that purpose. Would you buy a sledgehammer to crack a walnut?

its a valued reasoning.........

The SP Panigale is a ........ exercise of ducati making money off the back of it being suited to track riding. when in reality for the price you pay for the specification they supply its wrong. Personified only by the "limited edition" reps which really do epitomise this theory.

The R is purely for homologation, because they have to.

just saying..

On that basis nobody should buy a V4 Panigale for the road as there are other bikes that are far more suited to that purpose. For the track, either buy the R because you want to or get a base and put the bits on it that you want.

There wouldn’t really be much point in them making a non-homologation bike that’s very focussed on the track as that’s what the R is. The SP2 is an upgraded V4S with parts on it that, personally, I like (the carbon wheels are gorgeous and it’s a Ducati so it should have a dry clutch). It’s been rather excellent on track as well and it looks very cool in the flesh.

I get that lots of people seem to like to put the SP/SP2 down but it’s actually an extremely good bike that was top of the standard range and had some nice parts on that added up to more than the price paid. I think it’s great.

I’d say it’s less of a ........ money-making exercise than taking the SP2, painting it red, putting a 916 sticker on it and selling it as a limited edition for a lot more money.

andyb said:
I don’t think some on here are quite getting it….
Getting excited about mirror blanking plates and a DDA versus a R engine is somewhat naive….

SP = commercial tat
R= homologation

The stuff that’s included on the SP2 costs more than the cost difference between the SP2 and V4S. I disagree with ‘commercial tat’ but that’s ok.

It’s not that people don’t understand - they disagree. There’s a difference.

craig bush · Mar 28, 2024

panibadboy said:
15-50 300v or Ducati recommended

Don't do 15-40 it's too thick

To my understanding , both behave like a 15 weight oil at cold temps.

15-50 behaves like a 50wt at operating temp.

15-40 behaves like a 40wt at operating temp.

So the 15-50 maintains greater viscosity at operating temperature (i.e. thins less as it warms).

The 15-40 isn’t “thicker”.

gtomachine710 · Mar 28, 2024

craig bush said:
Viewed from one frame of reference, the R doesn’t make sense. From a different perspective, it might.

To my understanding, WSBK regulations:
- limit displacement to 1000cc
- limit coat of production bike to $45k
- require 500 bikes for homologation

1000cc + 500 bikes + $45k = production V4R

For some, that equation balances; for others, it doesn’t. If it doesn’t for you, then change the parameters:

1100cc + production run + $40k = sp2

If that balances, buy the sp2 and enjoy.

I agree. Although they have put the R into production. Highest number I've seen so far is in the 1600's.

craig bush · Mar 28, 2024

spooky said:
On that basis nobody should buy a V4 Panigale for the road…

An entirely reasonable assertion.

craig bush · Mar 28, 2024

gtomachine710 said:
I agree. Although they have put the R into production. Highest number I've seen so far is in the 1600's.

Yeah, idk the minimum number for homologation, just that there is one.

baggerman · Mar 28, 2024

No matter what version these bikes don't make any sense. Who needs a 200 wheel HP motorcycle. Accept that we are all speed crazed degenerates...

smithbuddy760 · Mar 28, 2024

gtomachine710 said:
I agree. Although they have put the R into production. Highest number I've seen so far is in the 1600's.

I believe the number of SP2s out there is very similar to the number of V4Rs. I saw numbers up to around 1400 on the SP2 the last time I was in Ducati newport. They had around 6 of them on the floor for the last large shipment of SP2s

spooky · Mar 28, 2024

craig bush said:
Yeah, idk the minimum number for homologation, just that there is one.

I believe it’s 1,000 in total, with 500 by the end of the first year and the rest by the end of the second year.

craig bush · Mar 28, 2024

baggerman said:
No matter what version these bikes don't make any sense. Who needs a 200 wheel HP motorcycle. Accept that we are all speed crazed degenerates...

Alternatively, one might reasonably recognize buying one of these bikes exclusively for track use makes way more sense than buying one exclusively for road use.

gtomachine710 · Mar 28, 2024

craig bush said:
Alternatively, one might reasonably recognize buying one of these bikes exclusively for track use makes way more sense than buying one exclusively for road use.

My problem is I can't imagine riding a $40-50k motorcycle on the track. I'd probably prefer to have something much cheaper on track so I don't have to worry as much. Something at that price point I'd much rather ride the hell out of in the canyons and still have the ability to keep it nice.

spooky · Mar 28, 2024

gtomachine710 said:
My problem is I can't imagine riding a $40-50k motorcycle on the track. I'd probably prefer to have something much cheaper on track so I don't have to worry as much. Something at that price point I'd much rather ride the hell out of in the canyons and still have the ability to keep it nice.

I’d say if you ‘ride the hell” out of it in the canyons then that would be a greater risk than on the track.

andyb · Mar 28, 2024

gtomachine710 said:
My problem is I can't imagine riding a $40-50k motorcycle on the track. I'd probably prefer to have something much cheaper on track so I don't have to worry as much. Something at that price point I'd much rather ride the hell out of in the canyons and still have the ability to keep it nice.

this is a don't understand bit....or lets call it an unconscious incompetence! So you consider riding on a restricted poorly surfaced public road with .... coming the other way a more safer environment for your 40-50k bike and you, than a enclosed track with no speed cameras safety facilities smooth surface yada yada

baggerman · Mar 28, 2024

craig bush said:
Alternatively, one might reasonably recognize buying one of these bikes exclusively for track use makes way more sense than buying one exclusively for road use.

Actually I totally agree. These are way too fast for a road bikes. But I'm way too old for trackdays. I think under AFM rules, I can run 2 races and my expert license is reinstated though. What's the issue with 20 years between sanctioned races. I finally have after changing the head bushing, shortening the wheelbase etc. a Pani with high bars. It's transforming into a total weapon. A fine motorcycle with a few niggling problems. I'm going to buy the parts and raise the SA pivot.

andyb · Mar 28, 2024

there was a std 2023 street fighter going around Jerez this week ( along with two KTM 1390 things, and a 1200 Multistrada and two Kramer/ktms) .....he was enjoying himself....

gtomachine710 · Mar 28, 2024

spooky said:
I’d say if you ‘ride the hell” out of it in the canyons then that would be a greater risk than on the track.

True but you have to make a whole day out of it, tow it to the track, do a bunch of prep etc. Not saying that's a bad thing. I live 10 minutes from endless miles of canyons, which itself is great given I don't need to be around anyone most of the time lol.

gtomachine710 · Mar 28, 2024

andyb said:
this is a don't understand bit....or lets call it an unconscious incompetence! So you consider riding on a restricted poorly surfaced public road with .... coming the other way a more safer environment for your 40-50k bike and you, than a enclosed track with no speed cameras safety facilities smooth surface yada yada

If that's what you want to call it. I'm not driving through city streets with "speed cameras", as you make it sound like.

spooky · Mar 28, 2024

gtomachine710 said:
If that's what you want to call it. I'm not driving through city streets with "speed cameras", as you make it sound like.

He’s in the UK - awful roads, cameras everywhere… it’s not great. Thankfully I’m no longer there and now live one hour from Most (current WSBK venue) and two hours from Brno (former, and hopefully again quite soon, MotoGP circuit).

There are some good roads around here but I don’t have a load of endless canyon roads within ten minutes - if I did I might spend more time on the road.

That being said, there are no cars on the track and everything’s going in the same direction, with consequences of crashes perhaps not quite so bad as on a road.

gtomachine710 · Mar 28, 2024

spooky said:
He’s in the UK - awful roads, cameras everywhere… it’s not great. Thankfully I’m no longer there and now live one hour from Most (current WSBK venue) and two hours from Brno (former, and hopefully again quite soon, MotoGP circuit).

There are some good roads around here but I don’t have a load of endless canyon roads within ten minutes - if I did I might spend more time on the road.

That being said, there are no cars on the track and everything’s going in the same direction, with consequences of crashes perhaps not quite so bad as on a road.

Agreed. All depends where you live. I consider myself lucky.

Paul G · Mar 28, 2024

These bikes are manufactured in small numbers and sold as exclusive high performance sports bikes, it appears a lot of guys get them to massage their ego's. Sort of like a Lambo but without the chick magnet appeal

. In the end its all about fun, I am not going to tell you that cruising to a cafe to show off your 40k bike is wrong or having 4 inch chicken strips means you dont deserve one! Same for the bling-a-ling brigade who think that getting 5k wheels is going to make you a better rider or whatever, but the fact is these are really ....... fast and to get the "feeling" you need to push to some degree. On the road that means avoiding cops, idiots and bad surfaces, the track is a much better place and you can use slicks. The argument over which is better SP or R is stupid, either bike is excellent so toss a coin.

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Would you choose a V4R or SP2 for trackday use?

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