Ducati Panigale V4 916 25 Anniversario Build Thread

[Raul1976]

Very nice rear brake caliper Raul,
What is the color of that rear caliper?
Is it the Nickel Plated color but become golden due to the reflection from the magnesium wheel or is it actually have gold color?

Hi it’s nikel Plated. It’s just the reflection.

 

[shigeru]

What did you do for the pressure switch?

I used the banjo clutch switch that came with the RCS 16 clutch master cylinder.

 

[double0]

Full handlebar set up. You have to go with single switch set up on throttle side to make room for master cylinder to move over. View attachment 32529

Mannnn, I loveee that F4 RC. One of the most stunning bikes. Pure work of art.

 

[chris320]

Chris320. There are a few people on this board who have run that rear caliper and the PS13 master for years with and without the ABS setup. Maybe shoot them a PM. With regard to the QR fittings, what would your reasoning be for running them with the MS calipers? The MS caliper is “road rated” meaning the piston assembly is sealed from debris. Only reason to run QR lines is if you are running a component or components in the system that require frequent cleaning or disassembly like a race spec caliper without dust seals. If you do need to run them get the Staubli not the knockoffs. I believe they are “off road” items but the Staubli may carry a spec, not sure on that. If it’s a cosmetic application I would pass. It’s expensive and the less complexity in the system, the better. One of those things fails and it’s probably not going to end well.

Aware of what you say, i'm just trying to replace the traditional banjo bolt fitting to the calipers and rear master cylinder. (you can see what a mess the standard fitting looks with the use of banjo bolt)
Hopefully BMW Alpina is working on something!

 

[SickDuc]

Aware of what you say, i'm just trying to replace the traditional banjo bolt fitting to the calipers and rear master cylinder. (you can see what a mess the standard fitting looks with the use of banjo bolt)
Hopefully BMW Alpina is working on something!

Twinsies...a bit

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[BMW Alpina]

Aware of what you say, i'm just trying to replace the traditional banjo bolt fitting to the calipers and rear master cylinder. (you can see what a mess the standard fitting looks with the use of banjo bolt)
Hopefully BMW Alpina is working on something!

Hello Chris320,
Yes, I am currently working on solution... and I understand what you mean by "the mess the standard fitting looks"...

Especially I don't like the way they split the front right and left caliper by using double banjo bolts on the right front caliper...
I prefer a true dual separate line to each caliper and combine using a nice Y adapter...
so this past few days, I was hunting for the nicest looking Y adapter...
and this is the nicest so far from Melotti Racing:

However, there is a few problems:
a. this splitter is very big and if I mounted it near engine side, then, it is hidden so no use for my cosmetic purpose, or can be shown near the fairing vent opening but it will look like a mess of flexible braided line
b. if I mounted at the lower triple clamp, that mean no more horns, and I don't want that... I want my bike to be fully functional like from the factory (even the horn)
(I know, I am just being too demanding even my bike is only for static display)... plus I already bought that PIAA horn hahaha
Beside, you cannot really mounted it on the triple clamp because the input line will be coming from the ABS and not from the front master cylinder like on this Yamaha R1,
so the braided brake line will have high risk of being pinch... well I think it will be pinch,...
in summary, this won't work... well, it will work without ABS, but if I am not even willing to ditch my horn... I am sure as hell will not ditch my ABS



so after surfing the internet for hours and hours and losing sleep time... I found this splitter below...(and I already order it) I will use the left horizontal port as input from ABS and the two vertical parallel port to go to left and right caliper, each with it's own braided kevlar line. As soon as the splitter arrive, I will measure and take picture and post it here so you can see the size and how it fit.

I think this should be small enough to be bolted on the location near the current bracket (just on top of the radiator), picture below show the location that I plan to bolted this spliter to:

I also already order several Goodridge Banjo Adapters that will be used on the ABS ports. I need to buy this Banjo Adapters first so I can then start doing a "simulation brake like" to determine what kind of crimped banjo (and other fittings) that I will need for both the hardline and the kevlar line. Once they arrive and I post pictures, you will have better understanding on what I mean...

Oh, I also bought TITANIUM Tube Nut, yes Titanium material for the 3/16 cooper nickel hardline tubing. This Titanium Tube Nut is only available in Metric 10x1mm thread, so I will have to flare the hardline in DIN/ISO Bubble standard instead of the AN/JIC standard...

Now, regarding Staubli, I also spent some time to study them... and this is the best link to study them: Quick-release couplings for hydraulic applications - Stäubli
I always wondered why everyone is using (and most vendor is only selling) the SPH line with aluminum material... well silly me, the answer is price of course
so I guess, I also will only be using the SPH line... I am confident with the safety of the SPH line because it use Bayonet style connection, although I don't think it will ever be road approved due to this...
just make sure you check before you ride your bike, make sure no bad jealous people disconnect your brake line while you park your bike.
Also, I will use the banjo fitting style, this way, not only you safe on weight and extra fittings, it will also act as "bracket" that prevent too much "swing" during riding. I also like the cleaner look compare to another braided line with the staubli connector hanging in between... Anyway, I will update my hardline/kevlar line project, however progress might be slow because I need to order parts, measure/fit, order more parts, measure/fit/fabricate and order more parts etc. etc. etc..
but this will be fun

 

[BMW Alpina]

Twinsies...a bit

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SickDuck, I can see you also fans or ProTi bolts , however what catch my eyes is your bronze/magnesium colored swing arm !!!
Do you paint it or powder coat it or cerakote it? or since this is a 1299, maybe it is a real magnesium swing arm? Either way, it is very nice

 

[SickDuc]

SickDuck, I can see you also fans or ProTi bolts , however what catch my eyes is your bronze/magnesium colored swing arm !!!
Do you paint it or powder coat it or cerakote it? or since this is a 1299, maybe it is a real magnesium swing arm? Either way, it is very nice

Thank you! Birds of a feather haha.

I could only wish it were real magnesium, I went for a powder coated bronze, just a bit dirty at the moment.


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[BMW Alpina]

Hi @chris320,

I "might" found another solution if you want to direct plumb onto your rear master cylinder (or Brembo Calipers) without using banjo bolt and look much cleaner (plus it using TITANIUM Fitting)...
So ProTi have this fitting:

ProTi Part# M10-IN-OIL-01

One side have pitch of M10x1.0mm the other side is 3/8 24 (or -3AN thread). I am pretty sure from the picture that you can use a cooper crush washer on the M10 side and plug it into the rear master cylinder port directly,
while the 3/8 24 should be -3AN,... however ProTi did not specifically mention that the convex end is AN standard, so I can not say 100% sure this will work, but I don't see any other reason that ProTi made a fitting like this beside to adapt from -3AN to M10x1.0mm connection. But if it is AN standard, then you can just use a braided hose with -3AN female hose end to connect to the ProTi.

by the way,
one of the Staubli have a connector using male M10x1.0mm but it use O-Ring and I think that O-Ring is not suitable to the Brembo rear master cylinder since the Brembo Master cylinder do not have o-ring groove...

The only reason why I will not use this ProTi for my project is because I want to use Stahlbus banjo bolt with bleeder valve to help the bleeding from the rear master cylinder side.

 

[endodoc]

Similar Staubli setup on the track bike instead of using the angled adapter

 

[endodoc]

Core can also make any setup you want including custom manifolds and race spec sensors. They also have Titanium banjo fittings as an option.

 

[chris320]

great info, thanks guys.
i was planning on either Hel or Goodrich just putting that 'Y' section in to connect to the 2 seperate lines to front calipers. it may not even need bracketing. just need to find out where to connect it. BMW Alpina, may need more info on that CB connector you have found.
i will see if i can find out more info from my contact at Proti thanks.
Endodoc, love that setup on your photo of the front caliper. ive noticed that only the REALLY expensive calipers have a flat brake line input on the top! the MC calipers would prob need something similar to that 20 degree staubli banjo fitting.

 

[BMW Alpina]

great info, thanks guys.
i was planning on either Hel or Goodrich just putting that 'Y' section in to connect to the 2 seperate lines to front calipers. it may not even need bracketing. just need to find out where to connect it. BMW Alpina, may need more info on that CB connector you have found.
i will see if i can find out more info from my contact at Proti thanks.
Endodoc, love that setup on your photo of the front caliper. ive noticed that only the REALLY expensive calipers have a flat brake line input on the top! the MC calipers would prob need something similar to that 20 degree staubli banjo fitting.

Hi Chris320,

CB mean ChaseBay, this the link to their website/online store for that "F" shape distribution block, Part# CB-MALEF:
-3AN Male F Fitting

and Yes, Please kindly let me know once you find out more about that ProTi adapter.

 

[chris320]

Hi Chris320,

CB mean ChaseBay, this the link to their website/online store for that "F" shape distribution block, Part# CB-MALEF:
-3AN Male F Fitting

and Yes, Please kindly let me know once you find out more about that ProTi adapter.

thanks!

 

[BMW Alpina]

I just got an email with pictures (and invoice ) from the TiN (Titanium Nitride) coating company.
He is going to send this TiN coated Grade 12.9 Steel Bolts today. This Stronger Bolts will replaced all the stock factory bolts on the Rear Suspension (Bracket, and Link).

Also took out the front and rear brake line so I can use it as "template", the hardline section of the brake line.

 

[Raul1976]

Raul, thanks for the info. actually i want to change the brake and clutch lines anyway, i want to fit either quick release couplings or male fittings directly into calipers. i dont want to turn the speciale into a race bike, so am not sure yet wether quick release couplings are safe enough for road riding. (have a contact at goodrich who made the lines for my cbr, but he says the qr couplings not certified for road use.) that may just imply that they have not been tested for approval on road bikes. Thats why i was asking if you have given Hel the templates for standard lines so I could then get them to make up the fittings i opt for.
also interested in removing rear master cylinder to replace with suter or brembo 'all in one' unit, but again, need more info? and that would require completely different rear brake line from abs unit to the new brembo P2 rear caliper i have already.

Hi I called Goodridge and Hel today and this is what I was told. They both say the quick release couplings are aluminium and they can leak or oxidise after a couple of years. Hel went phone step further and said Staubli produce the best quality fittings and said I should buy theirs. There are two types. In line and a type that bolts directly to Caliper. These are the codes for the in line type male and female. 1652/ba/l/kr/je and 7652/ba/l/kr/je. The Hel brake lines are rotatable at the banjo if using crimped fittings and Goodridge’s are not. They have bolt on type fittings if you want to ensure you can rotate the fittings to get correct fitment. I experimented with different lengths and fittings and am awaiting now what should be the final batch of lines using the current set up of lines. See pictures for banjo connections below.
Caliper to Caliper 45cm

Caliper to ABS 91cm

ABS to Corsa Corta MC 69cm picture to folllow.

 

[Raul1976]

This is to fit GP4 RX Calipers only using oem line set up.

 

[chris320]

raul, thanks for the info. from what you say, the quick release couplings definetely lend themselves toward the racing setup. last thing i want is leaking and oxidising joints when not removed very often. i will try to find out more regards the proti titanium direct bolt-into caliper option that bmw alpina pictured.(of course, that will also need a swivel point somewhere for correct fitment)

 

[chris320]

actually Hel made the new lines for my 1299R, easier job as i simply replicated the original lines, not sure if they altered the banjo fittings to match the gp4 rx calipers as the job was done at the ducati dealers here in the uk. (actually they have my originals to use as templates). this time, on the v4, i didnt want that original banjo bolt connection.

 

[BMW Alpina]

Hi I called Goodridge and Hel today and this is what I was told. They both say the quick release couplings are aluminium and they can leak or oxidise after a couple of years. Hel went phone step further and said Staubli produce the best quality fittings and said I should buy theirs. There are two types. In line and a type that bolts directly to Caliper. These are the codes for the in line type male and female. 1652/ba/l/kr/je and 7652/ba/l/kr/je. The Hel brake lines are rotatable at the banjo if using crimped fittings and Goodridge’s are not. They have bolt on type fittings if you want to ensure you can rotate the fittings to get correct fitment. I experimented with different lengths and fittings and am awaiting now what should be the final batch of

raul, thanks for the info. from what you say, the quick release couplings definetely lend themselves toward the racing setup. last thing i want is leaking and oxidising joints when not removed very often. i will try to find out more regards the proti titanium direct bolt-into caliper option that bmw alpina pictured.(of course, that will also need a swivel point somewhere for correct fitment)

Hello guys,
If you want to learn more, download the PDF document from Staubli website:
PDF Download Section
Choose the product as SPH and then on the "specific brochure" choose: SPH/BA motorsports - Hydraulic

You will see that for brake fluid you need to choose the O-Ring in Ethylene propylene (EPDM)material.
and you need to Add /JE at the end of the part number when specifying this (although most likely all the vendor already choose this model, but check to make sure).

As with all connection using O-ring, after several years of use, you need to replace the O-Ring to prevent leak and you should be fine. I did not bought the MotoCorse brake fluid reservoir for my 17RCS Corsa Corta master cylinder because I worry the O-Ring would leak after several years and ruin the fairing, however, the Staubli is located further down and will not ruin the fairing, so I won't worry too much. I am also sure it is not that hard to replace the O-Ring on the Staubli based on the picture from the PDF brochure, beside it is a clean break/quick break solution, right, so just disconnect the two male/female staubli and then change the O-Ring (well I hope it is like that since I haven't bought them yet, so I can't really see the construction of the sealing system), but again, I think it should be simple.

Another thing about aluminum and oxidation is, Aluminum oxidize very fast, but once they oxidized, the oxidize layer actually become the protective layer to prevent further oxidation, so I will not worry about oxidation problem.
The leak (if any after few years) will be caused by the O-Ring not from the aluminum oxidize, otherwise, all the airplane (our our bike) will have a problem since most of them have body/frame made of aluminum.

Now, aluminum can have metal fatique, and when they are fatique, they just gave up and broke without warning. However, since those staubli connector were not face with a lot of load, I don't see how they can just broke by themselves...
but to make sure, I would buy the one that also function as banjo connector and bolted them directly to the caliper (using banjo bolt) instead of how some people kinda like hang them between flexible braided hose.

EDIT:
What I really worry about the STAUBLI is, if you park your bike somewhere, and some JEALOUS people disconnect your brake connection... that would be a big problem !!!,
or maybe they know how expensive it is, and they just CUT your line to steal the Staubli Connector (at least from the side that connect to the braided hose)...
I mean just for the front brake calipers, you are looking to pay around $750 for the 4 pieces of Staubli's connector... a lot of people would be tempted to steal it...
although this does not apply to my application since my bike is just sitting pretty, standing still, looking fast in my living room


More EDIT:
And if somehow you still worry about the strength of the aluminum, the SPH model also available in Stainless Steel or even Titanium.