not my review: Neil Hodgson compares superbikes

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Am I the only one here who thinks that lap times and race results are predominantly due to the riders? Obviously the bike's capability and set up counts but every other factor aside from the rider don't have as much of a roll in racing as the rider in the seat does.

The point is, one person's lap times compared to another says less about the bike/setup/track/conditions than it does about the rider. It doesn't necessarily mean anything about the bike.

I could take my old '06 GSXR 1000 to the track and pound the ....... out someone else on an Hp bla bla bla and that doesn't make the GSXR a better bike.

Frankly every time I see people get heated on this subject all I can think is how vulnerable their happiness must be. That they will only be happy if they think they bought "the best bike in the world". If you by the bike that truly makes you happy, you won't give a .... how well it's SBK cousins do at the races or what the reviewers say while comparing it to others.

That's where I'm at. I was there before I bought it.
I like this bike a lot. Not because it's better than anything else, but because I think it's beautiful and it makes me happy.
 
bikenamenumber said:
Am I the only one here who thinks that lap times and race results are predominantly due to the riders? Obviously the bike's capability and set up counts but every other factor aside from the rider don't have as much of a roll in racing as the rider in the seat does.

The point is, one person's lap times compared to another says less about the bike/setup/track/conditions than it does about the rider. It doesn't necessarily mean anything about the bike.

I could take my old '06 GSXR 1000 to the track and pound the ....... out someone else on an Hp bla bla bla and that doesn't make the GSXR a better bike.

Frankly every time I see people get heated on this subject all I can think is how vulnerable their happiness must be. That they will only be happy if they think they bought "the best bike in the world". If you by the bike that truly makes you happy, you won't give a .... how well it's SBK cousins do at the races or what the reviewers say while comparing it to others.

That's where I'm at. I was there before I bought it.
I like this bike a lot. Not because it's better than anything else, but because I think it's beautiful and it makes me happy.
Click to expand...

It has a lot to do with both the rider and the bike, as well as how the rider's style meshes with the bike. But ask anyone who's done any kind of competitive racing, you don't get to the professional level, let alone the WSBK level, without displaying a tremendous amount of talent. All of these guys are very capable of putting down incredible lap times, which you wouldn't necessarily find at the local track day.

I'm perfectly fine with the "live and let live" philosophy as it pertains to motorcycles (it is quite difficult to buy a bad motorcycle these days), but at the same time competition makes for great discussion and ultimately drives development which, as motorcycle enthusiasts, we all desire in one way or another.
 
Vanquisher said:
the HP4 carbon isn't any different than the HP4 Standard. It just has some carbon fiber bodywork and HP Rearsets.
Click to expand...

Seeing that I own #1578, I'm familiar with the differences between the Carbon and Standard.

If you're running a fair test of bikes, especially comparing riding capacity in different environments, how is it fair to include the only bike with semi-active suspension? I'm just defending (and I can't believe I'm doing it) the Duc's ranking. The R model is more comparable to the HP4.

It's like my boy who constantly bugs me for a race. He rides a gixxer 600. It simply isn't fair.
 
Kuroshio said:
Seeing that I own #1578, I'm familiar with the differences between the Carbon and Standard.

If you're running a fair test of bikes, especially comparing riding capacity in different environments, how is it fair to include the only bike with semi-active suspension? I'm just defending (and I can't believe I'm doing it) the Duc's ranking. The R model is more comparable to the HP4.

It's like my boy who constantly bugs me for a race. He rides a gixxer 600. It simply isn't fair.
Click to expand...

How is the R a more valid comparison?? I mean that the R doesn't have Active suspension either (using your logic) I think its a valid test..HP4 is an awesome machine.... Lacks something that could possibly be described as "soul" or "character" but awesome none the less...
 
bikenamenumber said:
I like this bike a lot. Not because it's better than anything else, but because I think it's beautiful and it makes me happy.
Click to expand...

The sound! Don't forget the sound!

I think half the fun I have on my Pani is just listening to it when I roll on the throttle somewhere around 7k rpm. Better than sex (at least at my age anyways) :) Gets me smiling all day.
You can put up all the reviews you want about how great the Beemer is. But at the end of the day....it's just a BMW.
 
Charliem90 said:
The sound! Don't forget the sound!

I think half the fun I have on my Pani is just listening to it when I roll on the throttle somewhere around 7k rpm. Better than sex (at least at my age anyways) :) Gets me smiling all day.
You can put up all the reviews you want about how great the Beemer is. But at the end of the day....it's just a BMW.
Click to expand...

True, the sound and styling is something every owner will experience. The performance difference between today's top bikes is something that most owners are not skilled enough to ever experience. That's why it's always a good idea to choose the bike you like best and it's not always about lap times. Can't help but laugh at someone who has to continuously trade their bike in for the winner of the next bike review.
 
mark419ny said:
i watched the races and one race weekend doesnt do a thing for me. ive never even heard of the guy on the bmw although thats not an excuse but a riders make a difference i mean look at what JLO does on the M1 and what rossi cant. my point is at that level the rider matters.
Click to expand...

Glen Allerton. Two time Australian Superbike Champion (2008 Honda, 2011 BMW). Phillip Island is his home track. I think it's fair to say he's a decent rider.
 
Stw said:
How is the R a more valid comparison?? I mean that the R doesn't have Active suspension either (using your logic) I think its a valid test..HP4 is an awesome machine.... Lacks something that could possibly be described as "soul" or "character" but awesome none the less...
Click to expand...

Hey I own one remember? :D

I don't consider using it fair in a comparison. Contrary to popular belief, the HP4 isn't just a s1000rr with wacky suspension and different colors. Midrange is upgraded, comes stock with an Akra full exhaust, DTC tuneability in Slick mode, lighter rims stock creating less rotational mass, lighter crank, etc. The HP4 is an upgraded s1k. Just like the Panigale 1199R is an upgrade.

I also don't like its use in comparisons for the simple fact that if a person hasn't already ordered one, chances are extremely high they won't be able to get one. Sure, I love it when someone sees Sersi and recognizes her. But when they ask where they can get one get's a blank look. Want a Panigale? I'll send them to Maire at Cross Country Cycle in Metuchen, NJ.
 
Charliem90 said:
The sound! Don't forget the sound!

I think half the fun I have on my Pani is just listening to it when I roll on the throttle somewhere around 7k rpm. Better than sex (at least at my age anyways) :) Gets me smiling all day.
You can put up all the reviews you want about how great the Beemer is. But at the end of the day....it's just a BMW.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
The sound is a big factor, along with the drop dead looks, and feel of the machine when riding it.
The DUCATI will always be more earthy and organic. AND BEAUTIFUL.
Every time one rides an 1199 it rewards in spades, even if you're just riding it to the coffee shop.
Not to mention that it will always garner more attention at the local coffee shop over ANY BMW (except maybe the HP2 Sport).
And any magazine shootout/reviewers'/Jesus Chists' opinions won't change that. EVER.
Also any variant of the DUCATI 1199 will always be more prestigious than a dirty old BMW HP4.

Don't get me wrong.
IMO, the BMW is a good bike for just another I4, but it's way overpriced.
You can go and get any Jap I4 at a fraction of the price, and have just as much fun on it.

Besides the engineering is not that advanced on the BMW.
The DUCATI is superior in that regard.
They don't even have a SSSA on the BMW.

Not to mention the styling.
Or the sound. Don't forget the sound.
The DUCATI is even more reliable.

Even a 1 eyed possum looks better than a BMW:eek:
We've got the pics to prove it now:D
 
Last edited:
Eleven 99 said:
True, the sound and styling is something every owner will experience. The performance difference between today's top bikes is something that most owners are not skilled enough to ever experience. That's why it's always a good idea to choose the bike you like best and it's not always about lap times. Can't help but laugh at someone who has to continuously trade their bike in for the winner of the next bike review.
Click to expand...

At least somebody gets it! I guess people like to pretend that they are race heroes by having the fastest lapping bike when they are not even capable of using any of them properly.
If you buy a bike based on lap times in a magazine it's a pretty dumb thing to do. You'll find it out when you do a trackday and get passed by some kid on a tatty old 600 too
 
Duck41 said:
Glen Allerton. Two time Australian Superbike Champion (2008 Honda, 2011 BMW). Phillip Island is his home track. I think it's fair to say he's a decent rider.
Click to expand...

i agree that would be fair to say. im not much into wsbk as the announcers are terrible and its just not exciting for me to watch. wsbk i watched for ben spies and bayliss oh and marcos girl . motogp is another story though.
 
Kuroshio said:
Hey I own one remember? :D

I don't consider using it fair in a comparison. Contrary to popular belief, the HP4 isn't just a s1000rr with wacky suspension and different colors. Midrange is upgraded, comes stock with an Akra full exhaust, DTC tuneability in Slick mode, lighter rims stock creating less rotational mass, lighter crank, etc. The HP4 is an upgraded s1k. Just like the Panigale 1199R is an upgrade.

I also don't like its use in comparisons for the simple fact that if a person hasn't already ordered one, chances are extremely high they won't be able to get one. Sure, I love it when someone sees Sersi and recognizes her. But when they ask where they can get one get's a blank look. Want a Panigale? I'll send them to Maire at Cross Country Cycle in Metuchen, NJ.
Click to expand...

i got my 1199 from maire and the upcoming hp4.
 
Brad said:
Exactly.
The sound is a big factor, along with the drop dead looks, and feel of the machine when riding it.
The DUCATI will always be more earthy and organic. AND BEAUTIFUL.
Every time one rides an 1199 it rewards in spades, even if you're just riding it to the coffee shop.
Not to mention that it will always garner more attention at the local coffee shop over ANY BMW (except maybe the HP2 Sport).
And any magazine shootout/reviewers'/Jesus Chists' opinions won't change that. EVER.
Also any variant of the DUCATI 1199 will always be more prestigious than a dirty old BMW HP4.

Don't get me wrong.
IMO, the BMW is a good bike for just another I4, but it's way overpriced.
You can go and get any Jap I4 at a fraction of the price, and have just as much fun on it.

Besides the engineering is not that advanced on the BMW.
The DUCATI is superior in that regard.
They don't even have a SSSA on the BMW.

Not to mention the styling.
Or the sound. Don't forget the sound.
The DUCATI is even more reliable.

Even a 1 eyed possum looks better than a BMW:eek:
We've got the pics to prove it now:D
Click to expand...

Ya know if you weren't across the pond, I'd challenge you to a curb squirrel appeal test. You bring your Duc and I bring my HP4, we park them out in front of someplace public and tally which gets the most admirers. Preferably a college campus where we can "interview" any cute female admirers on why they like our bikes (emphasizing the owners) ;)

Screw settling this like gentlemen. We'll settle it like any man should: which bike picks up the most women! :D
 
Kuroshio said:
Seeing that I own #1578, I'm familiar with the differences between the Carbon and Standard.

If you're running a fair test of bikes, especially comparing riding capacity in different environments, how is it fair to include the only bike with semi-active suspension? I'm just defending (and I can't believe I'm doing it) the Duc's ranking. The R model is more comparable to the HP4.

It's like my boy who constantly bugs me for a race. He rides a gixxer 600. It simply isn't fair.
Click to expand...

Dunno I still don't think it was not an unfair test, probably should have fitted a standard HP4 without the lightweight wheels and what not but in reality that doesn't make too much difference. Also lets not kid ourselves in thinking that DDC is going to make you 4 seconds faster. HP4 is a step forward into whats possible.

I honestly think they probably just picked a few bikes top of their range within the same dollar amount. Its fair IMO because if you have the coin to spend might as well see what your money can buy you. BMW just happens to be the best performing of that lot.

lol a 600. I won't even play with supercars, simply isn't fair.
 
Charliem90 said:
The sound! Don't forget the sound!

I think half the fun I have on my Pani is just listening to it when I roll on the throttle somewhere around 7k rpm. Better than sex (at least at my age anyways) :) Gets me smiling all day.
You can put up all the reviews you want about how great the Beemer is. But at the end of the day....it's just a BMW.
Click to expand...

Tell that my buddy on his S1kR when he tries to talk to me at the stop light :D
 
Vanquisher said:
Dunno I still don't think it was not an unfair test, probably should have fitted a standard HP4 without the lightweight wheels and what not but in reality that doesn't make too much difference. Also lets not kid ourselves in thinking that DDC is going to make you 4 seconds faster. HP4 is a step forward into whats possible.

I honestly think they probably just picked a few bikes top of their range within the same dollar amount. Its fair IMO because if you have the coin to spend might as well see what your money can buy you. BMW just happens to be the best performing of that lot.

lol a 600. I won't even play with supercars, simply isn't fair.
Click to expand...

DDC in the hands of an amateur like me inspires me to brake later into corners, compensating for the nose dive later braking causes. So DDC + increased midrange + lighter crank (less rotational mass) + lighter wheels (less rotational mass) could possibly = 4 seconds. Personally I think they should have used a stock s1000rr.

And btw the HP4 Standard's wheels are the same as the Carbon. Just not blue.
 
Sorry, I still can't get over the idea of buying a BMW, that is built in Taiwan at Kymco....
It just is wrong.......
 
Purple racks and trays.
They've lost me completely.
No wonder the quality standards are slipping and becoming more inconsistent at BMW.
 

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