not my review: Neil Hodgson compares superbikes

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Matt1979, one word: MANIGALE



:p


All that MANIGALE business was just an exercise in attracting the interest of the BMW HP 4 crowd:eek:

It was a clear failure anyway, because they should've used a white Pani and photo shopped some "Gay Blue" wheels onto the 1199:eek:
 
Not the HP4 vs Panigale again. You guys crack me up but I will bite on this one. The specs on both bikes are very impressive for a street legal bike. I said this before and I will say it again It really comes down to the rider. Most of you guys who watched the Super stock last year and as indicated by Duck41 that the EVO class the Panigale usually have the fastest lap time. Superstock did very well with the Panigale but they had and still have and always will have issues with tire wear on the Panigale. If Superstock ran as may laps as their big brothers they would have not have done as well as they did.

As for the short power band on the 1199 7-10K I think he is right that it is short but I truly believe it was done on purpose and done right by Ducati for track purposes. On the track riding hard I am constantly in that range and its easy to get to max hp before i run out of room I can only imagine what an R feels like on the track because it spins up faster than the base or S. On my Inline 4 you have to wait until your engine spins up crazy @ 13000 rpm. To me it takes too long to get there and usually I run out of room to exploit the max power. To me the BMW is easier to ride (for the novice) But the Panigale if you know how to ride is frickin razor sharp. My lines get tighter and tighter. The BMW is a great bike and pulls good due to the stock sprocket setup but it does not pull harder than the R period. If you are use to riding inline 4's it really takes some time to understand and exploit power curve of Panigale but once you do figure it out you will think its the greatest thing since slice cheese. I used to think I was always in between gears but not anymore.

Engine Displacement
S1000rr -999
1199 - 1198

compression Ratio
S1000RR - 13.0:1
1199S -12.5:1

Sprocket Size
S1000RR - 17/45
1199s - 15/39

Horse Power
S100RR - 193@13,000 rpm
1199 - 195 @ 10,750 rpm

Bore and Stroke
S1000RR - 80 mm x 49.7 mm
1199S -112mm x 60.8mm

Weight
S100RR - 451lbs
S1000RR - 420lb
 
The BMW is a great bike and pulls good due to the stock sprocket setup but it does not pull harder than the R period. If you are use to riding inline 4's it really takes some time to understand and exploit power curve of Panigale but once you do figure it out you will think its the greatest thing since slice cheese.

Nice assessment. This is in line with most published comparison dynos, which all show the Panigale producing more horsepower and torque than the BMW everywhere in the rev range except where the Pani hits the rev limiter and the BMW continues up to 13k rpm. The power curve on the BMW is noticeably smoother, but the Pani is pulling harder just about everywhere nonetheless.
 
Comparing the world superbikes with their roadgoing counterparts are highly irrelevant. There's isn't hardly any parts or meassurements that are the same as on the roadbikes. They might be based ob the roadbikes, but i reality there isn't much more then the sillouette of the fairings that is the same....

So, using the WSBK results as an argument isn't that relevant...

If you want to use racing results as a comparison, you should look at the STK classes like the F.I.M STK1000 and the BSB STK1000.
 
...also. I do think that using the Panigale S is pretty fair, since all these bikes are in the same price range, right?
 
I think Neil's assessment that the Honda does not live up to its competitors is valid.

anything else is rather irrelevant. thanks for the discussion ;)
 
All that MANIGALE business was just an exercise in attracting the interest of the BMW HP 4 crowd:eek:

It was a clear failure anyway, because they should've used a white Pani and photo shopped some "Gay Blue" wheels onto the 1199:eek:

Nah, keep your boys wanting to be ...... We're good

1497702_802690519756864_212771633_n_zps49e1d66d.jpg


bmw-s1000rr-hp4-sexy-babe.jpg


DYSTANYSPURLOCK.jpg


Oh wait... These women actually ride s1000rrs. Guess it follows the "Go, not show" mentality of our bike :)
 
Comparing the world superbikes with their roadgoing counterparts are highly irrelevant. There's isn't hardly any parts or meassurements that are the same as on the roadbikes. They might be based ob the roadbikes, but i reality there isn't much more then the sillouette of the fairings that is the same....

So, using the WSBK results as an argument isn't that relevant...

If you want to use racing results as a comparison, you should look at the STK classes like the F.I.M STK1000 and the BSB STK1000.

Your assessment is incorrect. I believe you may want to familiarize yourself with the new rules pertaining to the EVO subclass from which these comparisons have been derived.

"3. Under the new rules, there will be a sub-category known as the EVO class. This class will follow the FIM Superbike technical regulations for all chassis, suspension and brake components. On the engine and electronics side, however, these motorcycles will follow the present FIM Superstock rules. The price cap on brakes and suspensions will be the same as Superbike."

This will be the new WSBK standard beginning in 2015.The engine and the electronics are the same as Superstock, while chassis, brakes, and suspension can be enhanced under strict price caps. These are essentially slightly improved Superstock bikes so, yes, I would say these comparisons are very much relevant.

Just to provide further assistance, per George Villar from a previous thread:

Enjoy!!

2014 EVO SUPERBIKE RULES
The following rules will be added to the Superbike rule book, each section that is
exclusive for the EVO class will have the EVO 2.4 designation. All other EVO rules
will be the same as the 2014 Superbike rules.
The order of the book will place the EVO ruling just prior to the Superbike rule. If
there is no EVO rule prior to the Superbike rule, then the Superbike rule will apply
for the EVO class. The Superbike rules will also give guidance on the controlling
procedures and conditions.

EVO 2.4.8 Engine
 The total number of engines that may be used by a team during the entire
Championship is limited to six (6) per permanent rider. If a permanent rider
is replaced or substituted during the Championship, the total engine
allocation for the team will not change.
 The number of engines that may be used during each event is not limited.
 Each engine will be officially sealed by the FIM Superbike Technical
Director or by his appointed staff before it may be used.
 The seal will bear a serial number, which will be recorded. Any attempt
made to remove the seal will damage it irreparably.
 A broken or damaged seal will be considered as if the engine has been
used and it will be counted as a part of the rider’s allocation for the
Championship.
 The crankcase, cylinder, cylinder heads and head cover / valve cover will
be sealed to control the engine use.
 A team that uses more than the allocated number of six (6) engines during
the Championship will receive a penalty. The penalty for the team’s rider
using an additional engine will be to start from the last grid position for the
race when the additional engine is used and for the following race (two
races in the same racing season).
 Wild card riders will be allowed to use two sealed engines during the event
in which they take part.

EVO 2.4.8.1.1 Fuel injection systems
Fuel injection systems refer to throttle bodies, fuel injectors, variable length
intake tract devices, fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator.
 The original homologated fuel injection system must be used without any
modification.
 The fuel injectors must be stock and unaltered from the original
specification and manufacture.
 Bell mouths must remain as originally produced by the manufacturer for
the homologated motorcycle.
 Butterfly valves cannot be changed or modified.
 Variable intake tract devices cannot be added if they are not present on the
homologated motorcycle and they must remain identical and operate in the
same way as the homologated system. All the parts of the variable intake
tract device must remain exactly as homologated.
 Air and air/fuel mixture must go to the combustion chamber exclusively
through the throttle body butterflies.
 Electronically controlled throttle valves, known as ‘ride-by-wire’, may be
only used if the homologated model is equipped with the same system.
Software may be modified but all the safety systems and procedures
designed by the original manufacturer must be maintained.

EVO 2.6.8.2 Cylinder Head
 No modifications are allowed.
 No material may be added or removed from the cylinder head.
 The gaskets may be changed.
 The valves, valve seats, guides, springs, tappets, oil seals, shims, cotter
valve, spring base and spring retainers must be as originally produced by
the manufacturer for the homologated motorcycle.
 Valve spring shims are not allowed.

EVO 2.4.8.3 Camshaft
 No modifications are allowed.
 At the technical checks: for direct cam drive systems, the cam lobe lift is
measured; for non direct cam drive systems (i.e. with rocker arms), the
valve lift is measured.

EVO 2.4.8.4 Cam sprockets or gears
 No dimensional modifications are allowed.
EVO 2.4.8.5 Cylinders
 No modifications are allowed.
EVO 2.4.8.6 Pistons
 No modifications are allowed (including polishing and lightening).
EVO 2.4.8.7 Piston rings
 No modifications are allowed.
EVO 2.4.8.8 Piston pins and clips
 No modifications are allowed.
EVO 2.4.8.9 Connecting rods
 No modifications are allowed (including polishing and lightening).
EVO 2.4.8.10 Crankshaft
 No modifications are allowed (including polishing and lightening).
 The balance shaft must remain in place and no modifications are allowed
EVO 2.4.8.11 Crankcase / Gearbox housing
 Crankcases must remain as homologated. No modifications are allowed
(including painting, polishing and lightening).
 It is not allowed to add a pump used to create a vacuum in the crankcase.
If a vacuum pump is installed on the homologated motorcycle then it may
be used only as homologated.
EVO 2.4.8.12 Transmission / Gearbox
 Only one (1) set of gearbox ratios will be allowed. This set may be the
homologated ratios or a special racing ratio set.
 External Quick-shift systems are allowed (including wire and
potentiometer)
 The primary dive gear ratio must remain as homologated
 Countershaft sprocket, rear wheel sprocket, chain pitch and size may be
changed.
 The sprocket cover may be modified or eliminated.
 Chain guard as long as it is not incorporated in the rear fender may be
removed.
EVO 2.4.8.17 Fuel supply
 Fuel lines from the fuel tank to the delivery pipe assembly (excluded) may
be replaced.
 Quick connectors or dry break quick connectors may be used.
 Fuel pressure regulator must remain standard.
 Fuel vent lines may be replaced.
 Fuel filters may be added
EVO 2.4.9.1 Ignition / Engine Control System (ECU)
The engine control system (ECU) must be either:
 The original system as homologated and its software may be changed.
 Or an ECU kit model (produced and/or approved by the motorcycle
manufacturer) may be used. A special connector may be used to connect
the ECU and the original wiring loom. The retail price of the ECU kit
system (software included) cannot be higher than 1.5 times the price of
the original system.
 In addition to the options mentioned above, external ignition and/or
injection module/s may be added to the standard production ECU, but
their total retail price cannot be higher than the complete ECU kit.
 Central unit (ECU) may be relocated.
 Spark plugs may be replaced.
EVO 2.4.9.2 Generator
 No modifications are allowed.
 The electric starter must operate normally and always be able to start the
engine during the event.
 Motorcycles must start on the starting grid in neutral. Push-starting on the
starting grid is not allowed, the use of a ‘booster’ battery is permitted.
EVO 2.4.9.3 Additional equipment
Additional electronic hardware equipment not on the original homologated
motorcycle cannot be added with the exception of FIM/Dorna approved data
logging units. The characteristics of approved data logging units must be the
following:
 Maximum retail price of the unit (hardware + software, excluding sensors
and wiring loom) cannot exceed 1.000 Euro (VAT excluded).
 The unit must be available for sale to the public and listed in the
manufacturer’s catalogue.
 A total of ten (10) sensors will be allowed.
 The unit must be single-function. It is not allowed to add additional
functions
 Type of sensor is free.
 Wiring loom is free.
EVO 2.4.9.4 Wiring harness
The original wiring loom may be modified as indicated hereafter:
 The wiring loom may be replaced by the kit wire harness loom as supplied
for the ECU Kit model, produced or approved by the manufacturer of the
motorcycle.
 The wiring loom and the key/ignition lock may be relocated, replaced or
deleted.
Note: Parts (i.e. frame, suspension, wheels, etc.) not mentioned in this listing will
remain as described in the present Superbike rules.
 
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Kuroshio, you seriously expect anything else on a PANIGALE FORUM ????


LOL
 
In regards to how women perceive the Panigale, I believe Dennis (AntiHero) said it best in the January 2013 RideApart feature article in which he stated, "To women it’s a snarling bouquet of roses."

The bike's effect on women is an entertaining spectacle. Based on my observations, they're generally intrigued by the beauty of the bike, yet once it fires up they are momentarily unsure of whether to be intimidated by it or further drawn to it.
 
Yeah, chicks as fugly as the bikes :D

:eek:

The one in the second pic is pretty nice:)
Put it this way Jeff, I wouldn't climb over her to get to you in bed;)

Besides there's no indication that she actually rides that bike that's OUT OF FOCUS in the background.
I reckon it's out of focus on purpose to help hide the 1 eyed possum face.

The other pics are a bit of a worry.
Especially the first one. That's promoting hooning, and we have laws here about that sort of thing.
Anyway, if doing a line locker is the only way to get attention when you've got a BMW, then that says a lot about the demographics of the clientele. And the machines:eek:

It's a good thing we as DUCATI owners, don't have to resort to such banality in order to draw attention to our truly magnificent machines;)
 
Lol O.... K.... You guys are seriously drunk on the Kool-aid :p

I'll leave y'all to delusions and sour grapes :D

Mate.
We may well be on the RED koolaid intravenously fed into our veins.
But we certainly aren't delusional.
And the grapes aren't sour. They're actually made into fine Italian wine.
Bellissima:)
 
In regards to how women perceive the Panigale, I believe Dennis (AntiHero) said it best in the January 2013 RideApart feature article in which he stated, "To women it's a snarling bouquet of roses."

The bike's effect on women is an entertaining spectacle. Based on my observations, they're generally intrigued by the beauty of the bike, yet once it fires up they are momentarily unsure of whether to be intimidated by it or further drawn to it.

+1
That's been my experience.

Some even try to play it super cool, and pretend not to notice as you ride past.
A discrete check in the mirror will often catch them turning right around to check the bike out after you've passed by. Even if they don't really know what they're actually looking at:D
Some times they will be in a small group(as they often are) where there will be the odd one gawking at the bike with their tongue virtually hanging out as you pass.

It's that sort of ....., that makes the price of admission to one of these things absolutely priceless. IMO.

Not to mention the little kids, oppressed/hen pecked husbands, groups of push bike riders at the lights, car drivers, truckies and pedestrians of all descriptions, etc etc;)
 
Kuroshio, you seriously expect anything else on a PANIGALE FORUM ????


LOL

Do you recognize the last woman? If not her, I'd hope you recognize her bike and sponsors :p Personally I find a good looking woman that can spank the crap outta 90% of the people (guys or .....) that face her in the quarter mile even more attractive. But hey as the Manigale men proved: modeling oneself over a bike doesn't mean you can ride it (meaning the female models).

So yeah, I guess I do expect at least a bit of respect for a pretty .... that would leave guys like Brad choking dust even though she doesn't ride Ducati.

+1
That's been my experience.

Some even try to play it super cool, and pretend not to notice as you ride past.
A discrete check in the mirror will often catch them turning right around to check the bike out after you've passed by. Even if they don't really know what they're actually looking at:D
Some times they will be in a small group(as they often are) where there will be the odd one gawking at the bike with their tongue virtually hanging out as you pass.

It's that sort of ....., that makes the price of admission to one of these things absolutely priceless. IMO.

Not to mention the little kids, oppressed/hen pecked husbands, groups of push bike riders at the lights, car drivers, truckies and pedestrians of all descriptions, etc etc;)

Oh please... Hate to burst your bubble further but the majority of women any age wouldn't know a Ducati from Duck Dynasty. They see a bike and look (I live between UPenn and Drexel). No comment on recognizing a BMW roundel however.... :D
 
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