‘23 V4S stock forged wheels vs BST wheels

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Haha, after a lot more research I ordered the BST Rapid techs…simply because they are 2lbs lighter than even the OZ Cattiva’s.

Also I watched a vid from a guy who crashed his bike at track pretty badly, the rims broke but served as kind of a crumple zone they saved his forks and a bunch of other stuff on the bike.

I also like lightness and have spent and bunch of money and time lightening the rotating mass on my bike. Not gunna go backwards on that.

So now the Thysenkrupp will be my Street wheel for the rare occasions I that I want to do a test ride or quick street romp between track days, and the BST will be my track wheels.
 
KarlKani said:
What's the point of going from one carbon wheel to another ? the BSTs are lighter?
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Honestly I think it’s probably 6 of 1 half dozen of the other between them. The BST are one ounce heavier in the front and 8 ounces lighter in the rear. So a net weight loss of roughly 7 ounces over the Thysenkrupp. But the barrel on the Thysenkrupp is lighter, and probably stronger because of their braiding technique.

I needed a 2nd set of wheels and have the Thysenkrupp already so thought I’d try the BST’s
 
The new dunlop Q5's front is like 10% shorter than a conventional 120/70. I don't know about their slicks but that tire almost has to be lighter. And that weight is way out from the hub. I'm thinking about using one cause it will correct my speedometer.
 
baggerman said:
The new dunlop Q5's front is like 10% shorter than a conventional 120/70. I don't know about their slicks but that tire almost has to be lighter. And that weight is way out from the hub. I'm thinking about using one cause it will correct my speedometer.
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That much of a change would require me to adjust my fork height to keep my geometry where I want it.i’m running a 125/70 Pirelli
 
baggerman said:
I wish there was a site to compare tire weights. 2 lbs off the tire is more effective than 2 off the rim and would be way cheaper.
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Yeah but you have to balance that with compound, I love lightness but will choose compound over lightness in tires…in the car world you try to find the balance by choosing compound first then going with a smaller diameter wheel with less width bit stickier rubber to make up for the reduced contact patch.

On our bikes not much can be done with the front, but you could potentially go with a 5.5 inch wide rear wheel.
 
FWIW, I had BST Rapid Teks on my VR4 track bike. Noticed a difference between them and the stock forged rims in that once the BSTs were mounted, the bike was over damped. The lower unsprung weight allowed for less rebound damping which made the bike more compliant which is probably more of a benefit on the road than on a smooth track to be honest. The "downside" of the BST wheels (or any lightweight wheel) is that you reduce the moment of intertia and gyroscopic effects that would otherwise keep the bike stable (and pointing straight) at higher rotational speeds. For a large liter bike that is ridden in a more point-and-shoot manner, I'd argue that the bike can feel a bit more flighty with very light rims. At least for me, it felt more like a change than an outright improvement. Of course, I'm no professional racer and I'm sure a truly latented rifer will be able to take advantage of the added nimbleness without getting spooked by the lesser stability.

On the road, however, the effects of the BST wheels were more obvious and universally appreciated. More suspension compliance and better bump absorption (due to being able to run less fork and shock damping. Which made the bike more stable over mid corner bumps. With more time spent in the lower gears, the rate of acceleration due to lower MOI, resulted in more effortless acceleration (limited by TC/traction of course). Bike just felt lighter in all respect which was a great thing. The flightiness felt on the track wasn't reproduced on the road due to the lower speeds and lesser lean lean angles. And all these differences were abundantly noticeable on the V4R which already had reasonably light forged rims. I did the same test on my KTM Superduke which came stock with heavy cast boat anchors for wheels. And the difference was truly profound. Even more obvious than the effects I felt on my Duc.
 
OpenFlash Performance said:
FWIW, I had BST Rapid Teks on my VR4 track bike. Noticed a difference between them and the stock forged rims in that once the BSTs were mounted, the bike was over damped. The lower unsprung weight allowed for less rebound damping which made the bike more compliant which is probably more of a benefit on the road than on a smooth track to be honest. The "downside" of the BST wheels (or any lightweight wheel) is that you reduce the moment of intertia and gyroscopic effects that would otherwise keep the bike stable (and pointing straight) at higher rotational speeds. For a large liter bike that is ridden in a more point-and-shoot manner, I'd argue that the bike can feel a bit more flighty with very light rims. At least for me, it felt more like a change than an outright improvement. Of course, I'm no professional racer and I'm sure a truly latented rifer will be able to take advantage of the added nimbleness without getting spooked by the lesser stability.

On the road, however, the effects of the BST wheels were more obvious and universally appreciated. More suspension compliance and better bump absorption (due to being able to run less fork and shock damping. Which made the bike more stable over mid corner bumps. With more time spent in the lower gears, the rate of acceleration due to lower MOI, resulted in more effortless acceleration (limited by TC/traction of course). Bike just felt lighter in all respect which was a great thing. The flightiness felt on the track wasn't reproduced on the road due to the lower speeds and lesser lean lean angles. And all these differences were abundantly noticeable on the V4R which already had reasonably light forged rims. I did the same test on my KTM Superduke which came stock with heavy cast boat anchors for wheels. And the difference was truly profound. Even more obvious than the effects I felt on my Duc.
Click to expand...

Yep I noticed the affect of the reduced gyroscopic forces too, when I was still a novice track rider (still average at best) it made the bike feel too flighty…so I made it more stable by adjusting the offset via adjustable triple trees…as I road the bike more and got more comfortable with it the flighty-ness turned to nimbleness and flick ability that I enjoy, so I put the offset back to stock settings. Now when I ride a bike with more rotational mass and greater gyroscopic forces it feel more dead, less fun, less lively and reactive.
 
cl955 said:
Not with a 200 tyre though?
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No I think you would go with the next size down tire, which would be the main weight savings. But then you open up a whole other can of worms, like how much heat a liter bike would put into a slightly smaller tire. I doubt bike weight would be an issue as liter bikes aren’t much heavier (if at all) than the 600’s now. The power difference might come into play though.
 
Narrow tire turns quicker. There's a tradeoff there. I've wondered if the Pani's were first designed to run 190's. If you were to run a 190 and readjust the rear ride height to compensate you'd put the swingarm pivot close to where they moved it when they raised the pivot on the later bikes.
 
Narrow tyres do turn quicker.

Fashion since the 1980s has been to have a big fat rear tyre (Ducati put a 190/55 on a 5.5 in rim with 110 hp on the 916, when a 180 is far better). I don't believe the Pani was ever designed to run 190... even the twin had to eclipse the RSV4 that was running 200/55 on a 6 in rim in 2012, and the Pani was the first Ducati to turn like a japanese bike and retain stability. That's not to say that a 190 won't well in certain conditions (rain tyres perhaps?)

I'm not sure that swinging arm pivot position has much to do with ride height (a 3mm pivot change won't make a 3mm ride height difference), SAP is more about anti-squat and pumping as well as behaviour under heavy braking. The pumping is a function of a lot of grip (contact patch from the tall 200/60 slick) and a lot of power.
 
They may turn quicker but they won't be quicker overall. More tire = lower tire pressure = bigger contact patch = less risk of overheating = more confidence. Investors? Possibly you.

It's why they're moving to 125 width front. And if you use a 65 ratio rear it should offset the slower turning 125 front
 
OpenFlash Performance said:
On the road, however, the effects of the BST wheels were more obvious and universally appreciated. More suspension compliance and better bump absorption (due to being able to run less fork and shock damping. Which made the bike more stable over mid corner bumps. With more time spent in the lower gears, the rate of acceleration due to lower MOI, resulted in more effortless acceleration (limited by TC/traction of course). Bike just felt lighter in all respect which was a great thing. The flightiness felt on the track wasn't reproduced on the road due to the lower speeds and lesser lean lean angles. And all these differences were abundantly noticeable on the V4R which already had reasonably light forged rims. I did the same test on my KTM Superduke which came stock with heavy cast boat anchors for wheels. And the difference was truly profound. Even more obvious than the effects I felt on my Duc.
Click to expand...
Such a ....... non-sense.

People buying 4k wheels instead of fixing 100 euros fork springs to their weight
 
Steven31371 said:
No I think you would go with the next size down tire, which would be the main weight savings. But then you open up a whole other can of worms, like how much heat a liter bike would put into a slightly smaller tire. I doubt bike weight would be an issue as liter bikes aren’t much heavier (if at all) than the 600’s now. The power difference might come into play though.
Click to expand...

Everyone runs 125 front 205 rear these days
 

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