Ducati V4 rumors?!

Mutt1979 said:

I love the Panigale because it was real slim and narrow. A 4 is going to look like its put on some beef

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...while i'd agree, there is always an R somewhere in the line up - having owned a 1199 & a sedici....the width at the knees was wider - yes - offensive - no

The RSV4 is tiny compared to I4s. I wouldn't expect a Ducati V4 to suddenly be much wider and heavier...especially if they maintain the monocoque chassis.

As far as the power, it basically comes down to smaller pistons can move faster and build up power better than 2 bigass ones. The good part is that with a V4, you still maintain some of the mechanical grip advantage due to the power pulses (same thing Yamaha achieves with their crossplane design).

DStyleNZL said:

There still life left in the v2 for at lease one more model run:

DVT + Direct Injection + Double Clutch/seamless transmission.

Supercharger could work, but the complex nature of this on a twin (more so with a panigale type frameless bike) would only really put it in a exotic model.

Turbo wouldn't work to well in a twin.....

The current Superleggra engine is rated at 230. So apart from the lighter internal parts the engine design itself seems to have some power left to find.

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230 are you on crack??

this is a bike made for going around corners putting a turbo on it or supercharger will totally destroy it.

Chaotic said:

As far as the power, it basically comes down to smaller pistons can move faster and build up power better than 2 bigass ones. The good part is that with a V4, you still maintain some of the mechanical grip advantage due to the power pulses (same thing Yamaha achieves with their crossplane design).

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Not quite. When it comes to power, EVERYTHING comes down to pumping air through the ports and valve skirt area. A modern 4 cyl will have twice as many valves, and will for that reason have a MUCH larger valve skirt area and an advantage on higher rpms. That's why a 2cyl gets 200cc more to play with, in order to make the same top end power with it's valve deficit, because the valves would stall/choke as the gas velocity would become too high. Go with roller valves instead og poppets, and you would see 1000cc twins and fours make the same power. The impact of the reprocicating mass is minimal, especially on a big bang V. Om lower rpms it's no contest. A 200cc bigger (or 300cc for the 1299) engine with the same top end Will always have a wider power band.

When it comes to the advantage the big bang has over a screamer, it is the power pulses. Or rather lack of them. In a screamer, all the pistons are stationary at the same time. Accelerating them saps rotational energy from the rotating mass (crank, flywheel, gearbox, wheel), causing awful secondary vibrations compared to a big bang. So even if you as a rider feel less primary vibrations om the screamer, the secondarys are way worse and causes a higher tire wear.

man. it will surely be interesting to see what Ducati will do with V4. Am I only one excited to see whats to come?

Not saying I'm bigger fan of V4 vs Twins as I love my R and will keep it.

youngR said:

man. it will surely be interesting to see what Ducati will do with V4. Am I only one excited to see whats to come?

Not saying I'm bigger fan of V4 vs Twins as I love my R and will keep it.

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thats it in a nutshell.....and i can't wait either

If we are wishing for stuff, I am still waiting for the 749R.

I was hoping the move up to 1299, then subsequent move to 959, was done to create room for a true (read: legal) Middleweight bike.

Give us a 749R with the superquadro engine putting out 125hp and 65ft/lbs of torque, with Ohlins, Marchesinis, etc that tips the scales under 330lbs wet in race trim.

I would buy 2 of them immediately for racing.

reganc said:

230 are you on crack??

this is a bike made for going around corners putting a turbo on it or supercharger will totally destroy it.

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Well, as nobody has a dyno printout yet nor even a indepht test ride I can really only go off whats been written about it.
I can always go back and speak in metric.....

Chaotic said:

Give us a 749R with the superquadro engine putting out 125hp and 65ft/lbs of torque, with Ohlins, Marchesinis, etc that tips the scales under 330lbs wet in race trim.

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I'll second this. 125hp/330lbs would be a blast.

I'd buy a competition eligible middleweight Panigale if there was one...

TurboLag said:

I'd buy a competition eligible middleweight Panigale if there was one...

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Me too, but the problem is economic with the "middleweight" bike. If they made a 749R Panigale, it would have to be market priced below the 959 Panigale (aside from the up-spec racing model that we would all buy, but "we" is probably only 100 people), and would cost roughly the same to produce aside from some cheapening of a few components. And it would rob sales from the 959 Panigale. So to make "room" for it, the price of the 959 Panigale would have to go up to create headroom for the smaller one. This is the cycle of life of a motorcycle model range, we've seen it play out over and over again. Hey guess what, the 959 MSRP went up $700 for 2017! Hmmm.........

I'm not sure if it would rob sales from the 959 if they're priced the same. The race guys can't legally race the 959 anywhere, and why would street guys go for 200cc less for the same price?

The 848 was legal in MW racing, technically they could go a little bigger with it. They could make it an 849 and it would be legal. That is why I was so pissed when they came out with the 899, they displaced (literally) themselves out of racing by going with the extra 50cc.

An 849cc Panigale motor would/could probably put 135hp and 70ft/lbs+ to the wheel. That would aggravate alot of MW riders off coming off apex.

But there is no way they would make a 959 and 849. That would do nothing but split the market.

TurboLag said:

I'm not sure if it would rob sales from the 959 if they're priced the same. The race guys can't legally race the 959 anywhere, and why would street guys go for 200cc less for the same price?

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I think you mis-understood, I meant if there was a 749 that was priced LESS than the 959, that would rob sales from the 959 for people who didn't care about the extra 200cc.

Well, now they have the SuperSport and despite it being clearly different from the perspective of seasoned riders, having yet another model from which to choose would make the middle market for Ducati sport bikes appear crowded. The price point and lack of electronic suspension on the R compared to the 1299S is enough to settle any purchasing decisions for anyone in the market for the ~ liter ~ tier who can't realize or understand the benefits of the racing model.

Chaotic said:

The 848 was legal in MW racing, technically they could go a little bigger with it. They could make it an 849 and it would be legal. That is why I was so pissed when they came out with the 899, they displaced (literally) themselves out of racing by going with the extra 50cc.

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Most manufacturers seem to be moving to the bigger capacity ~750 so I did wonder if we'd start seeing race series for those although I'm not sure if a 959 would even be eligible for that?

I wish the industry was not moving away from the 600 size bikes, I'm seriously considering an R6 to go racing on this year.

jarelj said:

I think you mis-understood, I meant if there was a 749 that was priced LESS than the 959, that would rob sales from the 959 for people who didn't care about the extra 200cc.

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Oh! Yeah, I read it as it would rob sales in the same price segment
But yeah, if a race intended 749 type Pani cost less than the 959 it would... What about a homologated race kit with smaller sleeves for the 959?

Chaotic said:

The RSV4 is tiny compared to I4s. I wouldn't expect a Ducati V4 to suddenly be much wider and heavier...especially if they maintain the monocoque chassis.

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I agree. But it has to go somewhere and it will have to get wider. It will have to get slightly heavier with additional exhaust manifolds etc. But as you say, it doesn't have to be massive. I'm just interested and these would be my initial concerns.

It's exactly my concerns as well. I love the idea of a V4 as the Tuono engine was pretty epic when I borrowed one a little while back but the low weight of the Panigale is what does it for me, especially the R. The RSV4 is 20kg heavier than the Pani R!

royal said:

Most manufacturers seem to be moving to the bigger capacity ~750 so I did wonder if we'd start seeing race series for those although I'm not sure if a 959 would even be eligible for that?

I wish the industry was not moving away from the 600 size bikes, I'm seriously considering an R6 to go racing on this year.

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1000 cc twins were legal in the 750 class so the 959 would be good to go.