Do you have a tune? Hoping to get mine soon. Where did you get the exhaust? Is your dealership standing behind the warranty with the mods? Appreciate the feedback.
San
MCN Shootout - V4S, RSV4 1100, S1000RR M
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Do you have a tune? Hoping to get mine soon. Where did you get the exhaust? Is your dealership standing behind the warranty with the mods? Appreciate the feedback.
San
I appreciate the thorough opinion/reply. You're right, he is sponsored my mistake. What i meant by it was not sponsored by any bike manufacturer to push their product, as he has all of the latest models and street races them all which i doubt any manafacturer would want to be attached to.
He usually gets the bikes broken in on the dyno, well that was the case when he used to go to brocks... Maybe not now...
He did do a video of them standard which another user has just posted.
No need for the flame suit, you havent stated anything ridiculous lol.
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[youtube]Otk28u9C9uc[/youtube]
This is a much more representative Dyno test as:
v4r - s1000rr(2020) - rf1100 factory - zx10rr - r1m
With the race kit the v4r is 200rwhp, on this vid says with a little fueling correction it’s got another 5-6hp in it. You shouldn’t run the r without the race kit!
With stock gearing its geared to 206mph @16.5k in top which it hits very easily!
This is a much more representative Dyno test as:
v4r - s1000rr(2020) - rf1100 factory - zx10rr - r1m
With the race kit the v4r is 200rwhp, on this vid says with a little fueling correction it’s got another 5-6hp in it. You shouldn’t run the r without the race kit!
With stock gearing its geared to 206mph @16.5k in top which it hits very easily!
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I appreciate a reasonable discussion of relevant motorcycles.
The stock bike comparison linked above (V4R, S1000RR M model and RSV4 1100 Factory) IMHO is more relevant than the 6-bike dyno comparison (too many variables (exhaust, tune, wheels, drivetrain etc.)).
The BMW barely edges out the Aprilia, but the Aprilia has a 100cc advantage. That the BMW is 8hp over the V4R is significant, but the V4R tested is brand new, so it will gain hp depending on who breaks it in.
The BMW is the lightest, makes more horsepower and is the least expensive bike in the 3-bike comparison.
I own a 2018 V4S, a 2017 R1M and a 2016 S1000RR. I bought my Ducati V4S based on the phenomenal reviews. It hasn't dissapointed me.
The new S1000RR is impressive. There really isn't anything available that matches the horsepower, light weight, and bang for buck.
The V4R is nearly as light, but down on horsepower (-8hp for now versus the BMW), seems to make significant horsepower in the higher rpms and is nearly twice the price of the others.
The Aprilia is relatively heavy (+20lbs over the V4R and +21lbs over the BMW), and an aftermarket tune and exhaust only picked up a few horsepower (4) and shed 11 lbs of weight.
The BMW is very new, and will no doubt shed a considerable amount of weight and gain significant horsepower with a new exhaust and/or tune.
San
[youtube]Otk28u9C9uc[/youtube]
This is a much more representative Dyno test as:
v4r - s1000rr(2020) - rf1100 factory - zx10rr - r1m
With the race kit the v4r is 200rwhp, on this vid says with a little fueling correction it's got another 5-6hp in it. You shouldn't run the r without the race kit!
With stock gearing its geared to 206mph @16.5k in top which it hits very easily!
You obviously haven't read this thread, as the video you're referrencing and others in this thread have been discussed. I'll repost my previous comments (in red).
This is in referrence to the video you've linked to. IMHO it isn't more representative as the modifications aren't listed, so there's no telling what was positive/negative, nor any indication of the cost of modifications.
First of all I have a V4S, so it's not like I don't like the Ducati. As far as that video, which I watched yesterday morning, I do have a few thoughts.
Regarding the Black and White bikes dyno of the new BMW S1000RR. They clearly state in the video they don't have experience with the BMWs. They also state it was hard for them to get a new one. I don't know why they'd have anything to gain with fudging the numbers, as it doesn't sound like they carry BMW bikes.
With regards to 650ib, he has sponsors and if you think he isn't influenced by them, you clearly haven't seen enough of his videos. The MotoMillion key fobs and hawking the ISSE drinks should be obvious. He's all about racing from a roll on the highway, which is irresponsible to say the least. He also modifies whatever he owns seemingly without any break in period. That said, here are my thoughts on the video, which I coincidentally watched yesterday before I posted.
First, all of the bikes tested had pipes and/or tunes and whatever else done to them, and with no rhyme or reason. I would have preferred to see baseline dyno runs of all the bikes, as the modifications made may have actually hurt the performance of the bikes. I'm addressing the bikes in order of horsepower, from the highest down.
The V4R makes the most power, but even they say that it doesn't really come alive until 12K rpms. It obviously has the race exhuast, a factory tune for the exhaust and aftermarket carbon rims.It also looks to have aftermarket sprockets, so no telling how the gearing affected the dyno results. Far from stock, yet it really didn't make that much more power. As outfitted, it is easily twice the price of any other bike in this 'competition'. Even with the lighter exhaust, wheels etc., it was still a pound heavier than the BMW. As mentioned in the video, there is more power to be made as the current tune is rich. Weight was 423 pounds.
The Aprillia is next. I think most of us have already seen the dyno comparison between it and the V4 (not V4R) and it clearly makes more power. This bike was tuned, and still within 4HP of the V4R and the BMW, despite the 100cc and tune advantage. The Aprilia was the heaviest bike here at 446 pounds.
The BMW is next. It has an exhuast, but doesn't look like a tune to go with it, given how lean it is in the midrange and rich in the higher rpms. It is bested only by the Aprillia, which has a 100cc advantage, and the V4R, which is akin to bringing a gun to a knife fight. As new as it is, I doubt it's long before it makes substantially more power. Like the V4R, there is more power to be made with a tune as this bike was running very rich up top. Weight was 422 pounds.
Next is the ZX10-RR. There are some engine and aero advantages the RR has over the R, at a much higher price. But this RR is stretched, probably geared as well, and no telling what else. The Kawasakis have always been known to have strong motors, especially up top, but it just goes to show how competitive the bike market is today. This was the lightest bike at 411 pounds.
Next up is a ZX10-R, at 1HP less than the RR, which shows that the RR probably has modifications that have taken away from the stock power it once had. Weight was 444 pounds, second heaviest.
Last was the R1M. Despite an exhuast, tune by the shop hosting the dyno and carbon rims, it was the least strong here. It was the second lightest bike here.
So, if money is no object the V4R is tough to beat for both power and weight. The Aprilia makes good power, but is heavy. The BMW is tough to beat for the money, making the second best numbers for true liter bikes, and being very light. The ZX10-RR is so modified it will only do one thing well, go fast in a straight line. The ZX10-R makes good power for the money but is heavy. The R1M comes in last for power, despite extensive modifications, and bang for buck isn't there given the competition. It is light, but without a serious refresh, isn't a bike I'd consider right now, and I own one.
This is my response to a post and video of the top three before modifications.
I would rather see the baseline numbers, as that is what the average Joe can expect from the factory. It also isn't dependent on how much one can spend to extract more performance. Stock versus modded, although as I said before, no idea what modifications were made and what they cost.
V4R Stock 183.81hp 437 lbs Modded 199.86hp 423 lbs
RSV4 1100 Factory Stock 191.55hp 457 lbs Modded 195.8hp 446 lbs
S1000RR Stock 191.92hp 436 lbs Modded (?) 191.55 422 lbs
The S1000RR was making less horsepower after it was modified. It's very new so I suspect that will change soon. As delivered (stock) it was the lightest bike of the top three, made the most horsepower and was the least expensive, despite carbon fiber wheels and other M option features.
San
Exactly my stance also on the matter. Looks are critical since most of us will rarely ride those bikes to their limits in top speed, or street races etc, and probably never ride them at their limits on tracks.
Start with the looks. Then the sound. Then the overall character. All else is truly secondary.
My thoughts so too. They established their symbol for like a decade now, to throw it all away and make it look kawasaki like or close to it.
Do you still own that 1199R? I'm eyeing one tbh! That's a nice piece of history and a handful of a bike.
I've got a question: Why did it measure the pull from the BMW in 4th and on the Ducati in 5th?
There's no tune out yet, PCV/Dynatek should be out in the next 60-90, Bren is working on something (hopefully sooner than PCV/Dynatek). Bought the exhaust off a forum member who runs https://soflosbk.com/ along with a few other goodies.
As for warranties...I see you're in the U.S., and we have the good ol' Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It covers mechanical and electronic "upgrades" or aftermarket parts to your bike. Anything you do to your bike does not "void" its warranty (it can have a warranty claim denied). It's such a silly concept that a dealer would even say this I find it funny. If you upgrade your handlebars and the turn signals stop working, do you think your warranty is void because you upgraded your handlebars? No.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act puts the onus on DEALERS to PROVE that your MODIFICATION CAUSED THE FAILURE. This requires analysis, lawyers, and going to court, which costs more than a blown up engine. If you bring up this little tid bit in the U.S. dealers do not have a leg to stand on other than to 1. go to court and prove your mod blew it up (with PROOF, expert analysis, etc.) or 2. just fix your ....... broken part.
#2 is almost always cheaper...so they do it.
Just make sure you can put your ECU back to stock before you bring your blown up bike back in...that's an easy thing for them to point to
Yeah that really surprised me! I know generally all the pulls are done in 5th and correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a lower gear affect the dyno measurement, especially since both the RSV4 and the V4R were done in 5th?
EDIT: I don't know if it will report different peak HP, but logic dictates that a lower gearing would move the hp/torque curve upwards, especially in the lower revs. Alas I'm no dyno expert!
Yes it should be a 5th gear pull.
I was on the dyno all day with the 2020 a few days ago, did 3 runs each of stock, after race filter, and after full exhaust. Race filter added torque more than HP (about 2lbs tq), exhaust added about 5hp to the wheel and 1tq. Made it run a little less lean than stock but not much...the bike needs a tune and I think there's easily another 10-15hp especially with a system. Was doing 198hp stock after she warmed up on 2 pulls.
In the 6-bike comparison, the BMW was run in 5th gear like all the other bikes. In the 3-bike comparison (all stock) the V4R was run in fifth, while the Aprilia and the BMW were run in 4th gear. There is a comment that says dyno runs are done with the closest 1:1 gear ratio
San
San
The V4R was done in 5th, but the Aprilia and BMW were done in 4th. See my post above.
San
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How much bigger is the APRILIA GAS TANK?
I think that weighting them with a full tank of gas is not a correct or fair way to measure them
Maybe the aprilia is just 12 lbs more than the other 2
I think that weighting them with a full tank of gas is not a correct or fair way to measure them
Maybe the aprilia is just 12 lbs more than the other 2
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Think the Aprilia is also the least fuel efficient so there's that
I don't agree that weighing motorcyles to be tested mandates that the same amount of fuel should be used. The 'reward' of a fuel efficient motorcycle is that it can have a smaller fuel capacity, which would give it an advantage both in weight saved and/or distance covered. Even if the two bikes were racing and entered the pits at the same time, the fuel-efficient bike would have a shorter pit stop, all other things being equal.
This post is addressing the 3-bike comparison and 6-bike comparison where weight is concerned. I've already addressed horsepower above in this thread. Your comment mentions 12 pounds. 12 pounds would be 2 gallons of gas. That isn't the case as described below. T
The increased gas capacity of the Aprilia makes it 3 pounds heavier than the BMW and 4.08 pounds heavier than the Ducati (V4/V4R) if everything else was equal (it is not). The increased weight I've listed in this paragraph is ONLY relevant to the gas capacity.
In stock form the Aprilia was 457 pounds, the Ducati was 437 and the BMW was 436. That means the Aprilia was 20 pounds heavier than the Ducati and 21 pounds heavier than the BMW.
After modifications the Aprilia was 446 pounds, the Ducati was 423 pounds and the BMW was 422 pounds. That means the Aprilia was 23 pounds heavier than the Ducati and 24 pounds heavier than the BMW.
San
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despite agreeing that buying a bike is a subjective decision, we are willing to go to great lengths to convince everyone (especially ourselves?) about the objectivity of our decisions
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The v4r 'mods' here comprise the 'race kit' which is the standard factory upgrade available to Joe Public!
Appreciate there are handling mods with the carbon wheels but they won't influence the power figures, the sprockets may be different but the gearing is still OEM.
So the power run in the 650ib video I shared is representative.
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The gearing for the V4R is 15/42 and the V4 and V4S is 16/41
Having the Ti conrods is probably better than the "M" lightened valve train tricks for longevity and one huge aspect that hasn't been addressed is the durability of the engines.
The Aprilla loses for that due the the letter in the new issue of Roadracing World Magazine which has evidently exposed the valvetrain durability problem and ECU logging of off-road activity.
Having the Ti conrods is probably better than the "M" lightened valve train tricks for longevity and one huge aspect that hasn't been addressed is the durability of the engines.
The Aprilla loses for that due the the letter in the new issue of Roadracing World Magazine which has evidently exposed the valvetrain durability problem and ECU logging of off-road activity.
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