2023 V4R, anyone else disappointed?

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A lot of comments ON the V4R from guys who say they don't like the bike. Then why comment?
 
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andyb said:
then on a on track Ducati video of it for the spec of the 2023 R I see this.. where's that set to +3?

View attachment 45794
Click to expand...

I see the source of “confusion” related to the +3 to -3 SA pivot issue. This photo clearly shows it, IF it is the actual configuration of the final production bike. Physics doesn’t lie, but sales and documentation can be “incorrect” in stating it. Follow me here:

When the rotating concentric pivot, which rotates around the fixed point/hole in the engine case to raise/lower the front of the SA, is set to +3, the “front” of the SA (not the pivot point) indeed raises “up”, but in doing so, the actual pivot point is lowered “down” to the lowest position in the SA relative to the chassis, rear axle & chain pull angle, so the effect is LESS anti-squat. To the casual observer the front of the SA is “raised”.

When the rotating concentric pivot, which rotates around the fixed point/hole in the engine case to raise/lower the front of the SA, is set to -3, the “front” of the SA (not the pivot point) indeed goes “down”, but in doing so, the actual pivot point is raised “up” to the highest position in the SA relative to the chassis, rear axle & chain pull angle, so the effect is MORE anti-squat. To the casual observer the front of the SA is “lowered”.
 
SBK-SP said:
I see the source of “confusion” related to the +3 to -3 SA pivot issue. This photo clearly shows it, IF it is the actual configuration of the final production bike. Physics doesn’t lie, but sales and documentation can be “incorrect” in stating it. Follow me here:

When the rotating concentric pivot, which rotates around the fixed point/hole in the engine case to raise/lower the front of the SA, is set to +3, the “front” of the SA (not the pivot point) indeed raises “up”, but in doing so, the actual pivot point is lowered “down” to the lowest position in the SA relative to the chassis, rear axle & chain pull angle, so the effect is LESS anti-squat. To the casual observer the front of the SA is “raised”.

When the rotating concentric pivot, which rotates around the fixed point/hole in the engine case to raise/lower the front of the SA, is set to -3, the “front” of the SA (not the pivot point) indeed goes “down”, but in doing so, the actual pivot point is raised “up” to the highest position in the SA relative to the chassis, rear axle & chain pull angle, so the effect is MORE anti-squat. To the casual observer the front of the SA is “lowered”.
Click to expand...

Shouldn’t the relationship between the position of the front of the swingarm, the swingarm angle, and the anti-squat effect be direct? When the position of the front of the swingarm is lower, isn’t the swingarm angle reduced (i.e. flatter), and the anti-squat effect reduced?

Raising the front of the swingarm should increase the swingarm angle and increase the anti-squat effect.

As stated here:

“There are two forces in the rear end that can be utilized–and even tuned–to nicely counter that weight shift. One is the driving force, or thrust, that pushes the rear wheel forward. Because the swingarm is at an angle to the ground, a portion of that forward thrust acts to lift the back of the bike–much as you can push horizontally on the bottom of a ladder against the side of a building to raise the ladder more. Like the ladder, the greater the angle of the swingarm, the more force is transferred into lift.”

Source:

https://bajatutor.net/using-swingarm-angle-chain-pull-and-antisquat-to-maximize-traction/
 
The front of the swingarm itself is raised by lowering the pivot, so the effect is a lower pivot. Don’t confuse the physical swingarm with the pivot point. Here is a better graphic.
F6404725-FDED-487C-AAA8-4358A4ACCD6F.jpeg


If the pivot was fixed within the swingarm rather than the chassis, they would change position together, but the method Ducati has used is a fixed pivot and moving swingarm.

Most other bikes (Aprilia for sure) use eccentric inserts that move the actual swingarm and pivot up/down. Ducati must always be different like employing a SSSA rather than conventional double sided.
 
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Glad thats all cleared up then......

Heres the different parts between fixed and R pivot.
Screenshot 2022-11-22 at 08.52.07.png


Looking at Item 1 and 2 shows the eccentric. you should be able to see the outer parts of 1 and 2 stay still and the inner parts can get higher or lower depending on where they sit in the rotation.
 
This is a still from SBU build you can clearly see where the SA sits in relation to the bolt head.
As it is there I would say the SA is sitting in its lowest position and least SA angle. If the bolt head was rotated 180 degrees anti clock wise the eccentric would place the pivot of the SA higher and hence more SA angle, more track orientated.

Screenshot 2022-11-22 at 08.38.15.png
 
LOL Ok, in this SBU photo it looks “correct” in that the SA pivot follows with the SA such that it “works” like we(?) think it should. That doesn’t look at all like the photo andyb posted of the 2023 “production” R at the press intro.

The parts diagram of the adjustable pivot also looks correct, so it must just be my interpretation of the press photo is wholly incorrect! The + numbers are “up” and - are “down” for the pivot. Carry on!
 
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