Hmmmmm, Mixed review and feelings about the Panigale in MCN against the others

Not the numbers I was hoping for.

2012 Ducati 1199 Panigale S Unboxed and Tested for the First Time! - YouTube

Looks like the 1199 just took its first win in Monza though. Doing pretty good in the stk1000 standings too. Opinions change now? I've had my 1199s for about a week now. As someone said before, my opinion is all that matters to me.

Only the 3th race in the FIM stock 1000 and we " the Panigale 1199s" allready is on the winning mood...

So he is the best superbike ON THIS PLANET...
NOT the RSV4 and NOT the BMW, but THE DUCATI PANIGALE 1199s...

SOULRIDER said:

Not the numbers I was hoping for.

2012 Ducati 1199 Panigale S Unboxed and Tested for the First Time! - YouTube

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Indeed; those numbers (from Motorcyclist) are the worst dyno numbers I've seen posted for a Panigale yet, and significantly worse than any others to date. Dynos vary of course so there's that to consider, but compared to their Aug. '11 comparison test (RSV4, 1198SP, S1KRR, ZX10R), that's barely more than 5 hp over the last 1198SP they tested, with only 4 lbs lighter curb weight. One can wonder not only about variability between dynos but between production bikes, but their published weight is more surprising (to me) than the power.

Looking forward to seeing some more data samples to flesh out the reality of what to expect from a pure numbers perspective. But of course that's only part of the picture. Also looking forward to seeing what can be done with a PCV to get rid of that massive 4000 rpm wide flat spot in the torque curve. The one in that dyno had a peak at 3400 rpm, then a big dip and didn't get back to the same level until 7400 rpm. Stock 1198's have a similar one, but not as big or wide. Should be able to tune a lot of that out though; suspect some A-F funkyness going on in there.

EDIT: I just noticed those numbers are from a Superflow dyno, so no surprise that they look low compared what I suspect are probably Dynojet numbers for the higher ones I've seen (see eddy-current vs inertial, etc). Re-checked the 1198 comparo and didn't see what those were done on, so who knows? Only really useful comparative dyno numbers will be back to backs on the same dyno; as ever! Weight still puzzling though. Some of you guys who have your bikes , chuck 'em on the scales already! :

It does appear as if the stock performance isn't as earth shattering as many of us had hoped. Claims of 195hp and lightest weight isn't producing the class leader we all thought Ducati produced......the numbers just aren't adding up.
I'm sure the street bikes will be fun to ride and be an absolute pleasure....but it's not appearing to be the "best" sportbike money can buy when other sportbikes are simply faster with measurable performance numbers that verify this.

these dyno figures are ..... i have seen 2-3 others way more powerful.
mcn 176/177
austin racing also got 176bhp.
and here in holland they got 186rwhp (with termi slip ons)

So torque actually goes DOWN between 4-6,000rpm?? WTF??

One other dyno test of a Tricolor with Termi slip-ons had 186hp at the wheel so this bike was 30hp less than that?

Let's hope either that particular bike or the dyno is ....... If my bike doesnt push out 195 at the crank surely that's grounds for returning the bike because it's not performing properly / as advertised??

This is really starting to get ridiculous now. I'm going to get the dealer to put my bike on the dyno before I finish paying for it. Never has an 1198SP been so tempting...

with only the cans rwhp.

a tri with ONLY the termignoni cans, same result as the guys here in holland.. around the 186hp on the wheel.

many of these reviews aren't making allot of sense.....the first comparison litre bike test (that im aware of) was done by motociclismo. here is the link if you can read italian or watch the video..
Comparativa sportive 2012: la Ducati 1199 Panigale a Monza (video on board) - Motociclismo
long story short the Panigale came in 3 and trapped the 2nd highest speed of 182miles/hour at monza.....motocyclismo also adds that the mid-corner stability isn't the best probably because the suspension could be improved "they only used track mode"...now Fast Bikes is telling me that the KTM has a faster standing mile than the panigale by 2 seconds?? that doesn't add up...maybe a bad launch?....clearly these guys know how to ride bikes so im kinda stumped lol...maybe they hate the panigale , IDK..Or maybe their riding it like the a 1198...i mean most of them i assume have to be awesome riders to even have such a job...anyways i would love the bike even if it had 100hp and was on leafsprings...i mean its the first all new bike out..im sure in a year or two the ducati will be revised with its teething problems and performance complaints fixed....its just strange to have such mixed reviews.

Quinten said:

a tri with ONLY the termignoni cans, same result as the guys here in holland.. around the 186hp on the wheel.

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It's looking like there a gonna be some units that are duds. That's why I wanna get mine tested on dyno before I finish paying for it - if it's a dud I want another one! HP being significantly down is just as bad as the brakes not working.

Does anyone know if I have a case legally if the bike has less Hp than 195 @ the crank?

Spilly1199 said:

Does anyone know if I have a case legally if the bike has less Hp than 195 @ the crank?

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You are kidding, right?

castle1911 said:

You are kidding, right?

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Not at all - if Ducati say the bike should have 195hp and it has 175 surely they need to rectify that? Either by finding the mechanical issue or replacing the bike.

I go back to my point that it appears some units are duds - eg blow smoke, nearly stall at 3-4,000rpm in 2nd gear unless throttle is yanked at which point it accellerates at full noise like a two stroke.

If I'm paying nearly $40K on a bike I sure as .... don't want a dud & the only time to rectify is on pickup so they can't say "you didn't run it in properly" or "we don't know what fuel you've been using" etc.

not possible offcourse.

but seriously though.. 176 rwhp is more realistic to me then 158.. either their dyno is crap or they are making a prank

their computer that i saw in the video looks from the 90's haha

I've never seen a maker not exaggerate their numbers.

Duds, I don't think so. Exaggerated numbers yeah of course. It's the norm.

Let's not get too excited over that video, or that the numbers are varying by as much as they are. Different brands/types of dyno's, run by different operators using different correction factors can explain most if not all of it. Dynojets are a bit notorious for putting up big numbers and sweep tests (full gas from low to high revs) are not the most accurate way to do it, although that's what you see all the time in vids. I'd only get worried if I saw a test that was run on the same dyno on the same day by the same operator showing a Pani running low HP relative to say, a Fireblade or an R1 when comparo time comes. It "should" come in somewhere between the ZX10 and the S1000rr, so if it does then all is right with the world, regardless of the absolute numbers the particular dyno spits out.

yes offcourse they have a little room to play with.. but this is too much...way too much.

so im sorry but i do not believe this dynosheet.

it's the same as a 1198 with cans. haha

Spilly1199 said:

So it's power actually goes DOWN between 4-6,000rpm?? WTF??

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I don't see what you see. Look again at dyno results and HP builds steadily until about 8K then spikes upwards.

Does anyone know if USA bikes are the same as UK bikes? Just because the USA bikes are less doesn't mean the dyno is wrong. I really want to see how other bikes compare within Motorcyclist on their dyno.

Chris

.....and the drama unfolds.....

Spilly1199 said:

Not at all - if Ducati say the bike should have 195hp and it has 175 surely they need to rectify that? Either by finding the mechanical issue or replacing the bike.

I go back to my point that it appears some units are duds - eg blow smoke, nearly stall at 3-4,000rpm in 2nd gear unless throttle is yanked at which point it accellerates at full noise like a two stroke.

If I'm paying nearly $40K on a bike I sure as .... don't want a dud & the only time to rectify is on pickup so they can't say "you didn't run it in properly" or "we don't know what fuel you've been using" etc.

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Their 195HP claim was at the crank. If if makes 175HP at the rear wheel I would say that is realistic